We're the Problem

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by OwlMAtt, Apr 16, 2012.


    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    Carson Corner Radio interview of witnesses of Soke Dux prowess


    Here are some eye-witness's to the prowess, publications, contributions and mis-representation of Frank Dux. One of the main topics is a sports illustrated article misrepresenting an incident with UFC fighter Zane Frazier. It is very illuminating stuff. It seems when the Gracie's were trying to get a name for the early days of the Ultimate Fight Challenge wherein the name itself comes from a title given to the only man to be acknowledged by Vic Morrow (The only man to have successfully engaged, tied or beaten Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, Bill Wallace and Joe Lewis) as the Ultimate Fighting Champion as a nickname because he was never able to beat Soke Dux. A lot of legitimate journalists are commenting and giving testimony about what they have found out about Frank Dux... It seems they corroborated his contributions to Navy Seal CQC manuals, fended off and controlled a weaponed attack by Kempo artist Frank Zane and 4 attackers and does have a Blackbelt magazine article in 1980 coorborated his competitions and the existence of the Black Dragon societies KUMITE Competition.... Good Stuff
  2. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    Frank Dux would be a great witness to his prowess if only he could verify anything he spouts. Also Vic Morrow was an actor and there is no way he could have beaten Bruce Lee because Bruce never fought anyone.
  3. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    What is Mr Dux actually Soke of?
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Dux and Zane got into it, Frazier decked him - end of story. Once again we have nothing more than asinine anecdotes to counter these things.

    I have seen footage of Dux and he is terrible. He is a charlatan, a fraud and has no proof of ANY of his claims
  5. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Don't forget Vic Morrow beating just about everyone
  6. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    You said this weeks ago, and yet you are still here, doing what? Trying to defend him. Your stake in this is obvious: if Dux isn't legit, then -- as I suggest in the article -- the credibility of the "Hall of Fame" of which you are both members is called into question.

    Let me save you some time: the credibility of a "Hall of Fame" that doesn't have a hall, that isn't particularly famous, and that charges its inductees a fee for being inducted is already very much in question.

    There is zero verifiable evidence that Dux has any lineage to any ninjutsu tradition. There is zero verifiable evidence that Dux ever participated in a secret tournament in Japan, let that he won it five times and set bunch of records in the process. There is zero verifiable evidence that this tournament even exists. There is zero verifiable evidence that Dux was ever a special forces or intelligence operative.

    Either provide some of that verifiable evidence or stop mucking up my article.
  7. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Hi Angel,nice to see you.

    It was revealed after his death that Morrow was an FMA practitioner,supposed to be very good. However I never,ever heard anything about him in regards to Lee,Lewis,etc.

    Odd these Morrow vs. whoever claims appear years after Morrow's death - how convenient we can't ask him. Everybody knows Norris is a straight up guy,if it was true he wouldn't deny it.Why don't you ask him?

    I read that BB article when it came out.Having an article printed with no sources to verify it doesn't corroborate anything.The editor said they couldn't verify it but they were printing it 'cause it was a fun read or something like that.I think Dux still named Ron Duncan as his teacher then, a name I never saw mentioned by him in later years.How come?Was notable that no one in the MA world knew about this tourney.So then who went and how/why such a secret?

    This was taken to task in magazines in later years.

    Angel,you were a Ranger if I recall correctly? Soldier of Fortune mag discredited Dux's military claims years ago,you can look it up. And the "secret" bestowing of the Medal of Honor-with the US Congress as witness? I mean,really.This is an injustice to all vets. You might also wish to look up what went down in court with Dux.

    Soke-riiiiight.A mis-used and abused title by westerners.Read up on it,I think the article "Soke Dokey" is a good place to start.

    I think you're a good guy and I understand your wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt but if you do some research beyond the hearsay you'll find there's no reason to grant it to this individual.

    I'm not too concerned over these dime a dozen HOFs.I was an official at a tourney where a very well known and respected senior generation Karate teacher who was present was inducted into one,(along w/some people you've never heard of).Of course he accepted,but neither he nor the others had to pay for it,tho'.Looks good on a resume', that's 'bout it.Doesn't bestow legitimacy on an individual,tho'.
  8. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    To be fair, I think Dux's title is Hanshi, not Soke. And as I explain in my article that is actually about Frank Dux, unlike this one, that title is almost certainly self-awarded.
  9. huntman

    huntman Valued Member

    I have to say people try to access the internet and find out who is who. Unfortunately, everyone seems busy verifying everyone's claims and badmouthing each other that, to a newbie makes ...everyone seems the charlatan. There, my friends seems to be the trap of lineage. you can make claims that you were taught by so and so all you want, all day long. If however you show up thinking about your girlfriend who dumped you, or you are drunk all the time or whatever is hamstringing your age has set in and you cannot perform certain moves...... are you still allowed to claim your an awesomebadass? Or are you living off the glory of lineage. Im not saying Either of these men deserve to make a living off martial arts. But lineage seems like an antiquated crutch to justify some who may not be able to explain, teach or pull off the moves.
    What is the hurt of living off your own name, your own skills? (yes I know some people are going to be buthurt about this post) but hey Im a newbie.
  10. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    That is the trap many fall into. Lineage and efficacy and not the same thing and that isn't the argument made.

    Lineage simply means you can show a line of transmission, that line of transmission will be associated with a history, culture and context which in turn will be reflected in the essence and technical aspects of the system.

    That's it.

    The individuals fighting ability is something else, yes often it is connected but lineage is all about being able to show that you are honest in what you claim.

    That is the problem people have when someone claims to have studied under some super secret ninja sensei in the middle of a mysterious lake somewhere but can't show a shred of evidence. This is further exacerbated when the system they show does not reflect the culture, technical elements and background of the system's claimed history.
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I have both, Dux has neither
  12. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Wow, that was really well put together. First I need to say that I agree with that entire post, I couldnt find a single thing misguideing or wrong about it at all. Second I have to say Damn aint it a shame, folks in 2013 can get taken by a charlatan like that.
    You know I dont see martial arts getting anything but more and more popular in the near future and Im even starting to think that at some point there going to be viewed as a very mainstream part of our culture (American).
    It seems apparent to me that a standard needs to be set at a national if not global level that offers a realistic concept of violence and how to handle it, fact and fantasy are all to often confused on the silver screen and on the mat at local clubs, gyms and Dojos.
    Wouldnt it be great if American high schools offered some sort of manditory anger and violence containment class where students were taught some basic self defense concepts and some basic anger management skills. Kinda a utopian Idea maybe but oh well I guess.

    Great post, and thanks for shareing.

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    yes I now do brother... sorry to be o long but I just finished my applied research.... you can see my work in the book.. removed. reviews will be coming in over the next few weeks..... They are from professionals in many relevant fields....
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2016
  14. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    It kind of bugs me when Ninjutsu is considered a martial art. Ninjutsu is the modern term for what spies in feudal Japan (or some Japan i dont know, prior to modern) used to use. spies dont go around killing people, granted they are trained to defend themselves and to perform assassinations (which they do now and then, not as a career though) they mainly recover information and do acts of sabotage. The main skill of a spy is charisma to talk his/her way out of trouble, not go on a killing rampage. Kind of silly to give someone who teaches (out dated and probably flawed) spying techniques to people who dont meet the criteria for modern intelligence agents. I dont know mucha bout any of this, just the misconception fo what spies do and how useful a system primarily aimed at spy work (or should be) is to a civilian. (dont think i need to mention intelligence work has become a lot more sophisticated since what ninjutsu is meant to be based on)

    Ninjuitsui seems good for SOME reenactment purposes but its just meh. Ninja craze indeed. I cant speak for the hall of fame, but they indeed wont get any award from me. :p

Share This Page