WEKAF Style Sparring, Opinions?

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Eskrimador, Feb 13, 2005.

  1. Eskrimador

    Eskrimador New Member

    Hi guys, simple question :

    What's your opinion on WEKAF style sparring?

    2 people just bashing each other?
    Any realistic merit/ Effective on the street?
    Pro's and Con's?

    I'll start first.
    When I first began to spar WEKAF styleI felt there was little concern for defence due to the amount of armor and it was just a case of seeing who could get in the most shots. Realistically, it seemed to me to be a 'double kill' type thing.

    However, after a few years experience, I've changed my opinion a little.
    Because from WEKAF style, I've learnt to dictate the fight better.
    e.g Defend, block, attack, land strike, retreat.
    I'm now trapping and checking the stick hand of my opponent while keeping my stick hand free and my hand eye and footwork has become so much faster.

    Would love to see any other opinions on the style of WEKAF sparring.
     
  2. Taliesin

    Taliesin Valued Member

    I've only entered a couple of WEKAF competitions but have already developed the following opinions:

    - that most important factor is how you approach it (if all you want to do is win, then forget about honing any real MA skills, just strike as often as you can - though it is still possible to win without playing to the rules)
    - the most significant factor in winning (for people of my limited skill anyway) is fitness, the generalisation is he who is fittest can hit the most often and therefore wins
    - unlike many of my other MA experiences, with a WEKAF format it's difficult to get hurt
    - finding ingenious uses of bodge tape in the manufacture of DIY protective gear is fun way of filling the hour before the competition
    - it's quite a good pain free way to try out parrying and checking against a number of different oponents
    - I wish that they would reintroduce punio strikes and thrusting, it can be very difficult not to use these techniques if you regularly practice them
    - adding kicking, punching and headbutting would allow even more fun :D
    - some competitors only seem to know abaniko strikes
    - a lot of WEKAF competitors wear glove that restrict wrist mobility to an extent that it greatly limits available techniques
    - you need other methods of sparring, otherwise you won't learn many of the basics like moving your hand out of the way of your oponents stick
     
  3. Peter Bradbury

    Peter Bradbury Valued Member

    Like all forms of sparing it has its faults and beifits. At the moment in the UK anyway the main problem is the lack of skilled fighters. It is mainly two people stood hitting each other, another problem being the amount of padding people are wearing, that much they cant feel a thing ( untill you find all the holes in the padding and hit them :D ).
    It is important to be very fit (which i geuss is a good point) when taking part in the competitons, as 3 one minute rounds are unbeilavbly hard in competition. If you want to learn to fight in the format properly, you can develop excellent footwork and learn how to use your left hand well.
    I geuss the best point is that it really helps speed up reactions.

    Peter
     
  4. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    all forms of sparring have pros and cons? then what would be the pros of point sparring?
     
  5. Peter Bradbury

    Peter Bradbury Valued Member

    of point sparing? :confused:
     
  6. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    yeah, point sparring is all that we do and there is absolutely no benifit to it. hit the dot and bounce away. they don't learn to attack the head, or wear down limbs or low, or hit combos, they aren't familiarized with the sensation of being hit either. absolutely nothing positive.
     
  7. Scotty Dog

    Scotty Dog www.myspace.com/elhig

    That's a discussion for another part of the forum, as we're discussing the WEKAF format here
     
  8. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    good point, i don't wanna hijack the thread. :D
     
  9. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    As Peter Bradbury stated, the problem with WEKAF in Britain at the moment is that too many people are doing what I call stick bashing.

    I hate to sound like an old croney but in the past you were scored on your defence and attcking techniques and the more you fought as though you did not have the armour on the more you scored with the judges, but as they say some clubs start to dominate and then the cheating starts. But hey that happens in all sports.

    If you use the WEKAF format correctly and not go out just to win medals you cantrain your blocking, evasion, footwork, attacking and speed striking skills in relative safety, but for those who think you don't get hurt or feel the pain in the armour all I can say is, I will spar you. you may hit faster, but pain soon slows you down;)

    I have numerous broken bones fighting in the WEKAF format and I normally find that the ones that say it don't hurt have not fought at the top level. There are some really good fighters out there that can hurt you at will, but it is the safest way for an individual to fight full contact and that is why WEKAF is more popular than all of the other formats that are out there.

    But I am a firm beleiver in not relying soley on the WEKAF format for real training, you have to do it all, Armour, Limited Armour, Padded Stick, live Stick and at senior level no rules.

    like any sport you get out of it what you put in, and if you just go out to stick bash and win medals you will walk away with a false sence of confidence, then when it comes to the real thing and you get hit for real with no armour then you are in for a big shock.

    I am affraid, gone are the days of the talented stickfighters in WEKAF, those who fought as though they had no armour, it has now become so much of a sport that 90% of the time it bears no relation to the art, it is just 2 kids bashing each other over a bag of sweets.

    But with time I am sure it will come full circle and a few talented fighters will step out on the mat and change the format, that is how sports evolve, one individual does something different then the next day the whole sport changes. Look at boxing.

    regards

    Pat
     
  10. escrimaguy

    escrimaguy New Member

    I agree that the most important thing about ANY sparring method is the Goal of the sparring at that given moment in time. What is the lesson to be learned? When we practice here at home, we are always given a specific objective to strive for during given sparring sessions, so, the WEKAF type of format works good for protection. But, we don't like the WEKAF type of tournament events.
     
  11. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I fought under the WEKAF format for years. And I have to admit that I was much more of what Pat referred to as a stick basher. I look back at tapes of it now (particularly the comp in San Francisco) and think "man, I could have done so much more." I think, in my case at least, I spent too much time working on attributes like endurance and not enough on actual strategy. So my strategy was the same every time. Go in, try to tie up his weapon hand, and go to town on him. Not enough footwork, not ruthless enough, etc.

    I think the WEKAF format can yield great results. But as Pat said, you get out what you put into it. I put a lot of effort into it, but not enough thought.

    And yeah, I would keenly encourage anyone who thinks it doesn't hurt to either 1) up the ante or 2) get themselves checked for nerve damage.



    Stuart
     
  12. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    I'll spar them:D

    Well posted Stuart.

    Regards

    Pat
     
  13. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    THEN they should get themselves checked for nerve damage. :)

    Cheers Pat.


    Stuart
     
  14. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Ah well, your obviously either doing it wrong, or your sparring the wrong people (stick bashers) or worse still, both.

    I have had many a broken bone in my time and given out a few too:D

    Don't wear so much padding, use the obligitory helmet and jacket, light gloves, light arm pads and a groin box, get a few whacks and guess what, you move, block and counter, because pain is a great teacher.

    But like I said before, you get out of it what you put in;)

    Regards

    Pat
     
  15. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    If you think WEKAF style fighting dose not hurt ask a gut called Andy Nugent from GB. He won a world title back in 1994 in Cebu in an awsome fight (still watch the video now) and was then rushed off to hospital to get several stiches in his head. Hey those were the days (I'm sounding like an old man now arn't I).
     
  16. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    old man? naw! historian maybe...

    wekaf has it's place. so does old school.
     
  17. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Absolutely, but it seems strange that the older I get the more and more I lean towards old school, is that because I'm geting older and senility is setting in, or maybe I have just had too many bashes to the old head with rattan:confused:

    I love the sound of rattan on bone and flesh, especially if it's someone esles bone and flesh:D

    Regards

    Pat
     
  18. Diego_Vega

    Diego_Vega Frustrated pacifist


    WEKAF is great for teaching endurance and flow.

    Old School old guys, like me, don't like doing WEKAF because we're force to endure and flow.
     
  19. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    AMEN!

    i guess because old school lasts only a minute or less? it's kinda straight to the point. you hit or get hit, something falls down.
     
  20. John J

    John J Valued Member

    Criticism of WEKAF sparring is a common topic and my views have never changed. I've competed in several events and believe there are some benefits to be gained from heavily armored sparring such as endurance and visual focus especially with the helmet but that is about it. Unrelated to the sparring but more the organization, the goal of fostering camaraderie is admired.

    I think criticism should be of the “players” and not of the event. The bottom-line is that it is the responsibility of the players to fight realistically and not look for only points. After all, if you cannot score the minimum points required within the allotted time/rounds then you do not belong there. What does it mean to “fight realistically”? This means the use of effective footwork to get you in & out, power in strikes, set-ups, counter-striking etc. Referees and judges should also encourage this mindset and penalize those who demonstrate complete disregard for defense.


    Yours in the Arts,

    Guro John G. Jacobo
    www.swacom.com

    "it's not the conditions in which you play...it's how you engage" - me
     

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