Weight Cutting and CNS

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by belltoller, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I saw an article about a former Muay Thai instructor I had when I first started MA a few years ago being hospitalised.

    She claimed that a bad weight cut "tapped into her central nervous system" and weakened her for a fight for one of the regionals.

    Is there such a thing? "Tapping into one's central nervous system"? I'd never heard of this - of course the CNS is affected by many things including electrolyte imbalances and so forth.

    But I've not seen problems with the CNS directly implicated before.

    Perhaps it unfortunate terminology on her part - she being originally from Brazil.

  2. Travess

    Travess The Welsh MAPper Supporter

    I am certainly no expert on the matter (barely marginely informed on the matter, if I am honest) but there is plenty of information out there on both mental and emotional stress and how they can have a negative impact on your CNS, so it would make sense, to a layperson such as myself at least, that physical stress too could have the same effect.


  3. jacobroca

    jacobroca New Member

    I'm sure excessive dehydration and caloric deficits can negatively affect many different aspects of bodily functioning, including the CNS..
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I might be completely wrong, but I took the "tapped" comment to be a poor translation of reducing cerebrospinal fluid by dehydration. As in "spinal tap", or lumbar puncture.

    Though, this study would suggest that dehydration affects venous pressure in the brain, but not cerebrospinal fluid absorption or levels: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9691013
  5. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    My no.1 rule for any athlete I coach is: "If you haven't made weight a fortnight before the event, you haven't made weight full stop." They can then choose to: 1) go up a division, 2) withdraw from the event, or 3) find a new coach (if they insist on continuing to cut weight in the two weeks leading up to the event). Dehydration is not a legitimate or healthy way to lose weight (never mind the fact I think it's unsportsmanlike and lazy), and I've seen too many people fall ill because of it - some of them quite badly.
  6. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I wondered about that - which was the reason for the post. She mentions "tapping into the/my/your central nervous system often enough for it not to likely be a coincidental misnomer.

    Likely her physician or even someone at the hospital used the terminology in attempting to break down the medical cause/effect for her.

    Yeah...I didn't look at the whole text - just the abstract of your link - my understanding of the in's and out's of the roles of cellular osmosis and intraventricular pressure on the cerebrospinal fluid system is ... dodgy ... well - lets say zero!

    I suppose the "chronic hyperosmotic stress" mentioned at the end of the abstract means, more or less, a severe electrolyte imbalance - is that somewhere in the neighborhood?

    I did see an episode of the Ultimate Fighter (taking the thread back to a level belltoller feels safe on)- can't recall which one; the series before Urijah and Conor - where one of the fighters went into convulsions during a weight cut and was attributed to an electrolyte imbalance.

    I suppose it just new terminology for the same thing its always been, then?
  7. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Van - just out of curiosity - how many have you personally seen actually do that -->
    on a voluntary basis?
  8. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Voluntarily? Probably never. At least that wasn't their initial reaction.
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Pffft... I dunno man! I jus' read the things, don't expect me to understand them! :p
  10. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Well, this is a fine sight - couple of muppets over here slinging medical terminology at each other.

    I thought you a boffin in the know, lol
  11. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    The current issue is the fluid surrounding the brain not being "refilled" in time for fights, especially in MMA. Apparently (according to Jeff Novitzky) that the reason they are implementing the IV ban is because it forces the fighters to re-hydrate in a safer/healthier way, rather than doing stuff like water-loading etc.

    Fighters would dry themselves out using various methods (including..steam room with cardio / no water / increase salt intake etc) and then step on the scales looking like skeletons. Re-hydrate using an IV and then step into the cage weighing up to 20lb heavier. Thats only about 24hrs prior to the fight, and apparently it takes 2 days for the fluid around the brain to get back to "normal".

    So fighters are then essentially taking head hits with less protection, increasing odds of concussions.

    I'm too dumb to understand if it actually affects the spinal fluid. I'll leave that to the folks who actually read/research the books.
    What I do know though, that it hits the kidneys first.

    I've cut weight before, but not obviously in the extremes. Most I have ever done is about 10kg in a month, through diet, starvation (no food after 5pm) and a lot of cardio. Never again with that. Felt horrible and getting food in me was horrible as well.
    Not to gross anyone out, but i ate loads of food, including lots of carbs (pasta/rice etc) and I was riding the porcelain pony in my hotel room the rest of the night...and if my pee was any darker, it might as well be coffee.

    Still got bronze yo (out of 4 lol)
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

  13. Bjjbrown

    Bjjbrown Valued Member

    My dissertation is going to be on weight cutting.

    Unsure if cns is to blame as evidence is a bit hit and miss but large weight cuts have been proven to affect cognitive skill
  14. neems

    neems Valued Member

    I think it would depend on the sport,but if you can make weight 2 weeks before a fight with a day before weigh in,you could probably afford to go down a weight imo.

    Though purely in terms of health I'd agree with you.
  15. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Indeed! Is this something that's been in progress for some time or are you just at the preliminary stages?
  16. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Can't but to wonder about the long term effects on the body's homeostasis - ...it definitely would be a very long-winded, multi-centred project stretching over years but it'd have to yield some interesting findings.
  17. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    This will undoubtedly be passed over with media-created Donald Trump riveting the sheeples attention but I'd thought I'd post it, nevertheless.

    It doesn't involved the CNS, explicitly, but it does highlight, once again, the dangers and potential tragedies involved with weight cutting, which is now so deeply woven into the fabric of many modern sport.


    If he has wife and kids, their lives will become immeasurably more difficult.
  18. Bjjbrown

    Bjjbrown Valued Member

    Preliminary stages. Currently gathering data from wrestling and judo and general anaerobic dehydration effects. I then need to find a sample of fighters willing to perform a 5% weight cut.
    Eventually I would love to get data published and push for different weight categories in ufc etc or tighter controls. My research so far suggests the benefits of weight cutting are balanced out with the decrease in cognitive ability
  19. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Wow. I don't remember/know too much about that except the general impression that statistical data sampling was far easier in theoretical survey courses than designing and implementing real-time studies on live, human population groups! LOL.

    You ever thought to contact the UFC to see if they would help support a bone-fide, meaningful study? It would mean a lot of knocking on locked doors until one finally opened for you but it might be worth the effort.
  20. Bjjbrown

    Bjjbrown Valued Member

    I am unsure if the ufc would want to though as it could potentially mean change or a realisation that current practices are not 100% safe

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