Weapons training in Muay Thai

Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by Sandninjer, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. Sandninjer

    Sandninjer Valued Member

    Is there such a thing? A few months ago, I went to a local flea market since they have a martial arts store which also happens to sell some weapons used in various martial arts. I ended up getting into a conversation with the guy working there and he said he was training in Muay Thai and that he was being taught how to use weapons like swords and nunchaku, maybe even others but it's been a few months and I can't remember.

    When I told him that I had never heard of Muay Thai using weapons, he mentioned that his instructor is very traditional and offers him personal lessons on how to use weapons.

    Has anyone heard of that? My apologies for sounding ignorant. I don't know that much about Muay Thai.
  2. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    I believe the weapons come from the older Mauy Boran and Krabong systems which were for combat rather than sport.
  3. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Muay Thai no weapons other than the 8 natural ones,Krabee Krabong yes weapons and empty hand technique:)
  4. Sandninjer

    Sandninjer Valued Member

    Interesting. Do you know which types of weapons that included?

    Going by Dave's comment, I'm assuming that this is the more modern method of Muay Thai if I'm not mistaken?
  5. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I don't know, exhaustively, but the double short sabre (daab) is sort of the trademark weapon combination. Then there's the tonfa-like maesok. And basically every culture has spears and staves.
  6. Sandninjer

    Sandninjer Valued Member

    Thanks for the info, ap. Had no idea Muay Thai implemented weapons. I guess the guy may very well have been telling the truth.
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Sorta. Muay thai specifically doesn't use weapons. Literally (as I understand), "muay thai" means "Thai boxing." The use of weapons falls under a broader heading of Thai martial arts. I'm no expert, but the term "krabi krabong" is the one I most often hear connected to weapon use. And it makes sense. Any nation that's ever been involved in warfare (so, all of them) is going to have weapon methods. Wars aren't won with knees and elbows. So the Thai culture certainly has weapon methods. But it's not technically muay thai. It's just a related study.
  8. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Yep, Krabi Krabong and Muay Boran are the main non-sport fighting styles from Thailand (that I know of).

    Muay boran is primarily empty hand and includes strikes, clinch, throws, locks/joint distruction and is often stylised by the climbing "monkey" techniques (see any Tony Jaa film or demo).

    Krabi krabong includes weapons and empty hand combined - knife, single single-hand sword; double single-hand swords, sword and shield, spear, staff, tonfa (single, double and tonfa and sword - you can use the tonfa in reverse grip as a shield as well as hit with it).

    The thing I love most about krabi krabong is the combination of weapons in the hands, and thai style low kicks - always challenging to get power from the weapons and kicks AND still have good mobility.

    A lot of krabi krabong can look like FMA (only so many ways to move the human body) although one major exception is in the chambering of weapons - as FMAs are usually guerilla-based you can chamber to either side, but as krabi krabong is also designed to be used with groups of soldiers standing in ranks weapons have to be chambered vertically so you don't slice the guy standing next to you.

    If you can find a teacher, give it a go!
  9. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Seems like less crossing of the weapons in krabi than in FMA though. I've tried doing sinawali with Thai-style daab (sabres) and the long handles on them kept getting tangled up.

    Mind you, I'm pretty talentless. That could be the issue. :)
  10. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    I'm confident your modesty is showing again. There's some smaller ones that don't have the really long handles that I think you could pull off sinawali with. I do like the Krabi Krabong movements with two swords or longer sticks. Play around with them outside when the weather is nice.
  11. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Sinawali is hard (but possible) with two largo sticks too... Have you tried adjusting your grip to shorten the punyo? :D

    I see your point though, I think it relates to the side chambering (FMA) vs front chambering (krabi - fighting in ranks) difference in attitude. In order to cut a backhand without side chambering you have to either swing the weapon above/in front of your head before cutting (I'd call that an oblique backhand redondo in FMA), or do something funky like a spin. Otherwise to tuck it under your arm (like basic sinawali) runs the risk of cutting the guy next to you...

    That was poorly described but I hope you get the idea!

    I'm off to get my largo sticks to work it out now! Thanks!
  12. SBK

    SBK Banned Banned

    Well Muay Boran was used for warfare so it would be mandatory to employ the usage of weapons, otherwise they'd all die in battle w/o any weapons.
  13. jaggernautico

    jaggernautico Valued Member

    The weapons especially the double swords are the main body weapon along with the staff and other longer weapons some which were used on horseback or elephant back. Krabikrabong is sort of a larger body so it has empty hand, weapons, weapon against weapon, weapon vs empty hand, meditation, and material like that BUT it has to come from the right teacher or you are getting more a sort of dulled down college course type of PE thing. The muay boran was mostly bare knuckle and then it comes to muay thai the ring sport. Other things are military lerdrit that uses modern weapons like guns and they wear combat boots etc for self defense and military.
  14. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    I believe that krabikrabong is the weapons side of it. That and it's predecessor, linglom. Muay boran may employ weapons work but it would not be swords. More of the long knife work.

    Where is soKKlab when you need him!
  15. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Hello Mate

    Krabi is the main weapons art - Mostly concentrating on the double sabers, staff and 'the big elbows' (Maesok as Ap said), single sword and shield and the halbard.

    There are other weapons and 'empty hand' in most Krabi Krabong schools. In fact Krabi shows us that Muay is the basic foundation...And then you build your practice of Thai Martial Arts from there...

    And that exploring the technical principles and concepts in the Mae Mai and Luk Mai (Major and Minor 'Tricks') is how you should base your training.

    There are other Thai weapon's arts including the rarer systems I heard referred to Fan Daab (Single sword and other Bladed weapons incl Knife).

    Also there is Awud Thai - which I can only describe as the Systema of Old Siam. As in it's a loose combat system that sort of means 'Any weapon, any circumstance'. So if a chicken pot is all you got...

    Ling Lom ('Air' or 'Flying' Monkey - A Loris) is an actual system in part. Though firstly it is well difficult to find any legit teachers. It's one of those terms that's been cashed in on cruelly.

    Essentially the term represents the unarmed combat portion of the whole Siamese combat system (Pahuyuth, Chaiyuth etc).

    I'll tell you straight most of what I been shown as Ling Lom was in fact not authentic. A lot of it was bad jujitsu with a bit of padthai chicked in...These days my luck's a bit better.

    Ler Drit is a mindset more than anything else (A willingness to die if necessary).

    As echoed herein if you can get access to legit teachers who're not trying to ramp you for mucho cash...Then definitely get as much of these systems as you can.

    There is some weapons work in the older Muay systems such as Chiaya, Korat etc. Whether this is a 'part' of those systems. Or whether they incorporated some Krabi who's to say.

    As I said earlier though. In legit Krabi Krabong schools you learn Muay first (the old style they prefer). Then you start playing with weaponry.

    Good Luck
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  16. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    Nice to see you on here again soKKlab!
  17. Sandninjer

    Sandninjer Valued Member

    Very informative discussions here, thanks guys.
  18. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xao5EhAFpbk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xao5EhAFpbk[/ame]Here is a couple vids I found. Someone else will know better than me how good they are.
  19. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Thats the Budhaisawan school of Thailand a great school and we are lucky to have Tony representing Bodhaisawan school and teaching teaching KK here in the UK:)

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