I can't see how you can honestly instruct someone you've never met. Again, I won't give details without express permission of those involved, other than people tried to carve them up and failed miserably.
@evva: please don't get stressed at people being flippant. No-one knows how dangerous your job/life is. I'm appreciating your input
Well, if it helps I have a small scar in my thigh from a pen knife (it hurt, a lot, and frankly I only took the knife off them that time because they were as surprised as I was that a swiss army knife could manage to stick in the thigh bone that firmly - firmly enough that when I legged it the knife came with me). Okay, really now, what type of person deals with threats of hand to hand weapons in their day to day work? I'm really curious here. I honestly want to know what kind of job you might do where you're dealing with hand to hand weapons being pulled against you on a day to day basis. [/quote]Its got nothing to do with trying to be a badass just realistic about how it is.[/quote] I think we're already out of realism land. Rear door. Emergency escape window (rear window on all modern busses can be popped out for escape, as can most side windows), under the seats, through the crowd on the bus... Why? No, seriously, why? I ride both buses, the underground and the train on a regular basis. Despite having encountered many aggressive, occasionally intoxicated (whether with alcohol or otherwise) people I have never met anyone who just wants to fight me, and can't be persuaded otherwise. What bus do you ride? Talk faster in the first place? There's an escape route. Seriously, what job do you do where escape and avoidance is not an option here, and you are not armed yourself? So... This person is armed. You cannot escape, because part of your (fantasy) job is dealing with them. You cannot inflict maximum damage in order to avoid damage to yourself for some weird reason. You cannot incapacitate them, for some weird reason. I think with those three you've eliminated every option. I travel the northern line. Hell, I've travelled from Chelsea through London before on a match day while wearing read. Oddly, I'm still breathing. Yes. Talk fast, delay long enough to change trains. Thank you. I think one of the basic principles of most (sane) martial arts is very, very simple and boils down to 'don't get hit'.
If somebody had a knife to me, disarming would be my last resort. I find it easier to dodge and deflect. Also, if they want my wallet, they can have it (jokes on them, I'm poor) But from what I've heard Fma do a lot of this, and I think aikido. But cross country is probably your best bet in this situation. Unskilled with a knife generally beats skilled without a knife. Unless your very skilled.
The day I survive a knife attack, I promise I'll post the details on MAP. That's the best I can do, sorry. As for MA videos, if you can't see the results, it is irresponsible, even reckless IMO. For sport or fun, fine. To give people skills to protect themselves and their loved ones, no. But that's a thread of its own I feel.
You're never gonna get that Mitch. You know that. I'd hesitate to say that martial arts training of ANY sort gives you a high percentage anything. It's all just odds and stacking them more in your favour isn't? Making your percentage chance of defending yourself "higher than it was before" rather than "high" per se. Your chance of defending yourself against a knife might be at 5%. With a bit of training, of the right sort, it might go up to 10 or 15%. Still not high but better. And that's all we can do really I think.
Our jujitsu syllabus does this, right from the first belt (usually first lesson) we are taught unarmed defense techniques and then in a later belt pretty much do those same techniques with a knife in the hand, and boom they already know it. We also train a random attack competition format, where you turn around and as you turn the attacker starts attacking you don't know what attack or (if there is one) what weapon they could be weilding and have to react. I've found that teaches to both respect the weapons but also how to deal with different scenarios. Here is a video of the european random attack competition this year to see what I mean: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afET5_lBvww&list=PLODgpJtn_CramIPQMlwFfoAccibDSAsuZ&index=17"]Here is a video of the european random attack competition this year to see what I mean[/ame] But as already said, you have to take everything into account, other people around - friendly or otherwise, escape routes and the guys intent, if he just wants your wallet, hand him it and go on with your day. if he looks like a crazy mofo who just wants to "shank" you then be prepared to defend (agressively if thats your thing)... "The best defense is not being in the situation"
It's a competition? How is it judged? Is there points or...??? Curious to know. I see people waving little flags, what does that mean? Thanks!
Yeh this was from the European Random attack Competition, its kind of like formalised Randori. While it is an individual competition, people usually take a partner to use as their attacker. the 2 competing defenders face away from each other on the mat, their attackers go to the table to be given an attack, and if needed a weapon, at random (both are given the same attack to perform) they then take places behind their opponent, with their arm behind their back, to conceal the weapon etc. the ref will pick one of the pairs at random, and say "red/white ATTACK" (depending what belt they've been given) the defender turns around, attacker instantly attacks, (or throws their arm/s up in the air if it is going to be a hold/ground technique the defender needs to attack, in which case the defender drops their guard and allows the attacker to position as needed) and the defender must defend themselves. Once the defense is complete both get up and face away from the other pair while they go through the same process. There are 3 rounds, after which the Attackers are sent off the mat, the Defenders are brought in front of the judges who give their decision. The idea is that results are based on who did the best "street effective" defense. Based on technique, skill, effectiveness etc etc (So a perfect Block, strike, hip throw, lock/strike to defend a round house punch, while considered rather basic, would probably beat an attempted fancier throw that didnt go quite right) It is an excuse to do show off a bit, so they fancier the technique, the higher you'll score, as long as you pull it off well (so would in theory be effective as a real defense) (This has gone a bit awry in Europe as some of the more competition oriented clubs just go big and flashy - which looks excellent and I commend their training to perform these at the skill level they show - BUT 9 times out of 10 if you countered a knife attack with a flying armbar you're going to hurt yourself more than them if you don't break your own neck . . .) I've probably not done a brilliant job of explaining it, more information is at: http://www.ec-random-attacks.com/
Who said i pick the fights ? By the very nature of the job conflict is part and parcel of it. Its nice to be in a position to get whatever job you like that pays enough to support your family but its not always the case.Anyhow its all coming to an end soon as ive got a different position within the company. I have absolutely no regrets doing the job as the daily conflict situations have only enhanced my martial arts training and my approach to it.Stepping outside of your comfort zone can be healthy, it helps you see clearly how situations arise and how to read them preventing them getting a lot worse.Only the other day i tuned into to something kicking off up ahead while out with my wife and kids,walked around and off we went as it escalated behind us. At least now i know how im going to react when dealing with someone with a weapon,im not going to freeze up.Luckily i havent had to fend anyone off physically attacking with a weapon,using my communication skills and brain avoided those really nasty situations to be in. The luxury of distance is nice but knowing how you will actually respond when you dont have that luxury is something well worth having in the experience bag. Experiencing adrenaline alone can make a lot of people feel strange in conflict situations.I got to the stage where i very rarely ecountered it,when i did it was dealing with serious stuff. There are jobs out there someone has to do otherwise the world would be a little bit worse off if nobody did them. A lot of people i know have mentioned how they wouldnt do the job but there you go we are all different at the end of the day arent we ? What works for one may not work for another.
I like the concept of this as a training tool, but for competition is falls a bit flat - I think this is primarily due to the "wet lettuce" attacks. The potential for this to be something quite interesting is certainly there though. It would be nice to see more commitment and effort from the uke Some of those defences were dangerous if not out and out unrealistic though - the aim seemed to be more flash over function. That can possibly be attitbuted to the "catch the judges eye" effect
I can't speak for other teams, but I know we were told to go all out on the attack if we were uke - the uke is half of the competition, if they don't attack well you can't be expected to defend properly. Similarly I can't speak for other judges but I know our judges would mark down someone who was only given a wet lettuce attack. As an aside for anyone who didn't look at the linked site, and to be more relevant to this thread, the weapon based attacks in the competition are: Knife - Stab to Stomach Knife - Overhead Downward Stab (think psycho style - ri ri ri ri) Knife - Backhand Slash Knife - "Roundhouse" Slash Batton - "Roundhouse" Swing to head Batton - Back Hand swing to head Gun - from behind Gun - from infront (Gun attacks the uke raises his hands as if to initiate a grab, defender drops guard to wait for the attack, gun is pressed up against the chest/back and the defense starts once the gun makes contact) As far as I'm aware this format (while based in randori) was designed by my association (while it was still part of the BJJA though) and the "street effective" aspect was a more major part of the rules. To the extent that when we went over to the europeans this year we had trained solely street effective stuff, we added some flash, but everything was safe to use on the street in theory. But when the judges from other countries are bypassing this "street effective" part of the judging and looking more at the flash it resulted in the UK team not doing as well as we felt we should have. Unfortunately if the street effective aspect is ignored and: I do a nice and safe but perfectly executed dropping body drop (for example) with a solid strike and standing lock while looking around for any other dangers. (all done 100%) Whereas: My Opponent does a perfectly executed flying armbar with all the trimmings. If we look at what is street effective I would probably win, because my opponent endangered himself probably more than the initial punch coming in would have done by potentially landing on his neck on the pavement. But if the Street effective aspect is largely ignored it does turn into a who can be more flashy, he would probably win as 100% basic technique vs a 100% flashy technique . . . Don't get me wrong though, I have a lot of respect for my opponent in the above situation, he trained hard and his technique was spot on, and if they trained to the same rule set I did, there is a good chance he would still have won because of the level and time they'd trained for (some were semi pro at this format, this was our first time at the europeans and had only trained for 6 months, the person who knocked me out of the comp had been doing it to this level for about 8 years...)
Sorry but not a single one of those attacks were committed at all Like I said, I can see the value of the format but it is not even close to being self-defense; it is "one step" sparring with a few bells and whistles
