My gut reaction is FMA. I think you're most likely going to find the most realistic and effective disarms in an art where the practitioners actually use weapons themselves, instead of just picking them up for the purposes of being stripped of them in drills. Yep. Keep it sweet and simple.
If you've only identified two problems in the face of a knife attack, I think you're ahead of the game. Of course these are potential problems. But what isn't a potential problem when you're facing off against a committed knife attack? Any attempt to reach out gives the knife wielder something to cut. Any lapse in your footwork or positioning makes you a pin cushion. Etc. Believe me, I know it's problematic. But that's kind of the nature of the situation. If anyone had identified an easy way to address being knifed, we'd all be doing it.
All this is assuming you know you are actually in a knife fight, one thing no one had identified yet. The last one i saw started as a fist fight and the knife came out halfway through.The victim didnt know till it was too late, about ten times he was stabbed in a few seconds. Thats why i train to cause the maximum damage in the shortest possible time if someone wants to attack me.Sparring is for the ring.
One thing I always keep in mind when I think of knife or weapon defence is this video. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zy37-_0LU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zy37-_0LU[/ame] Fairly standard advice when dealing with guns is to give them what they want, you'll get shot, defences won't work, etc. And yet that lawyer survived several close range shots and a fairly persistent attacker. Weapon attacks are most certainly survivable and winnable through all sorts of tactics and variables. They aren't foregone conclusions or a reason to lose hope. If you have to fight someone with a weapon then you'll need every ounce of venom and bottle you can muster pf course. But then that's why we do martial arts right!?! I think the most reliable disarm is to have the bloke KO'd and insensible at your feet. Knives can only hurt you if some nugget is shoving one in your direction. You could very well get rid of your attackers most potent weapon with a disarm and then still have to deal with all his other ones (fists, feet, head) if you haven't actually dealt with the man himself. It's a sort of fork in the decision road. I think the priority should be aggressive counter attack looking to separate the knife wielder's head from his body. But if the opportunity presents itself to disarm him as you are trying to achieve that then take that opportunity, but don't hunt for it at the expense of whacking the dude. That said...never been attacked with a knife so take a big ol' pinch of sodium chloride.
I think it was Matt Bernius (formerly of this parish) who espoused, "control the limb and punish the command centre." From the heavy contact full speed knife drill armoured assailant training I've done (some of it with PASmith) I know that I'm agreeing to every demand made unless it puts me in a worse position or dead. With no disrespect to the guys doing knife drills all the time but I have never seen anything that dealt with how knives are actually used (here in the UK at least) and provided high %self defence against those attacks. I am happy to be educated and illuminated of course Mitch
Thankfully I've never been in a knife fight. I have, however, trained with a fair few people who have dealt with knife attacks unarmed, and come out unscathed. Which is the very point of MA to my mind; the ability for one person to impart the advantages of their experience to another. For me, every 1% increase in the odds of surviving is worth it. If you begin with unarmed techniques that are equally applicable to attacks from weapons (or the obverse that some systems use: beginning with weapons then applying those techniques to unarmed use), then you will always be increasing your odds against a weapon when you are training. If you have to change your game once weapons become involved, it's going to be a lot harder for you to become effective.
I've heard all the arguments and follow them. I've yet to actually see something convincing. I'd love to hear more details about the fair few people you have trained with who have dealt with knife attacks unarmed and come out unscathed. How many people? What sort of knife attacks and under what circumstances? What happened? Mitch
I can only assume your sarcasm is because you dont deal with threats of weapons in your day to day work ? Its got nothing to do with trying to be a badass just realistic about how it is. Ok so i am on the back of a bus with no escape route and someone wants to fight me,he may have a knife (most likely on certain bus routes) and talking isnt working and he has a go,then what ? Hardly any room to move about,no escape route and your are cornered in a fight with someone who may also be armed. Remember the threat is only high or unknown and avoidance wasnt possible as its part of your job. So what options are there if inflicting maximum damage as quick as possible isnt an option ? In fact if you go past the police training college on the nothernline you will indeed see the actual bus the police use for training purposes for senarios like this. So what do you do then if you think im trying to be some badass by being open in my approach ? Whats your approach ?
I've been in one unarmed vs knife fight and came out unscathed more by luck than judgment. I've recounted the story elsewhere so will try and dig it out....
Yeah, I can relate to that. I've seen bits of other arts that looked good, but never seen a whole package that did. A "fair few" was probably the wrong phrase, more like a fair proportion of the people I've trained with over any considerable length of time, probably around 4. But so far, the success rate "in the field" is 100% AFAIK. Sorry though, I'm not going to recount other people's stories second hand. Suffice to say that the attacks were a range of different ones, from street attacks to various professional capacities, from unskilled attackers to pros. I didn't mean for it to sound like a boast, just stating the obvious: if you want good training, learn from someone who has done it and does it well.
Can you further explain that please? 4 people you train with have had encounters involving knives. Do you mean that each one of them has had multiple encounters and always emerged unscathed? Or do you mean 4 people you know have had an encounter each and emerged unscathed? How many people do you know who have had encounters and got cut? Or stabbed? Mitch
I have to say that this is my perception of knife vs unarmed. The force multiplier is just so massive. I'd love to see something that gave me real hope for any kind of high % unarmed vs knife strategy but I never have. If anyone wants to chuck a video on here anytime I'd be very grateful. Mitch
At least two have had multiple encounters. Most likely more than they've told me about. I've known a couple of people that I've not trained with who've been injured in knife attacks. None were close friends though, so I don't know all the details.
Well, as we all know, this won't be me I generally feel MA videos (with the exception of sport MAs) are irresponsible. I can't think of a motivation beyond ego and profiteering from fear. Doesn't mean I don't like rubber-necking on YouTube though
So you know two people who have had multiple encounters where they have been unarmed, their opponent has been armed with a knife, and they have emerged completely unscathed? Would you be willing to share just a little of the nature of some of these encounters? Mitch
Bring this back into focus for a bit. Why are you on the bus? Is it your job? Why are they wanting to fight you? Is this due to your job again?
