You mean the less-scripted stuff everyone has a problem with? Stab/slash from throat to pubis, not including limbs. Then trying to evade if the blade is turned against the wielder, or eating dirt if not. Softening strikes if necessary. Again, I feel I should stress that I've done this less than a handful of times. Probably 3 occasions of doing it 3-5 times. I don't see where this conversation can go from here. I don't mind if no-one believes me, I'm suprised it is such an alien notion to everyone and I never expected it to turn into a big deal. Unless a new point or question comes up, I'm out of this one. I'll make sure not to mention any of my personal experiences again, without video evidence to back it up (shame the doctors didn't honour my request to get my colonoscopy footage on DVD to support my claims of gut disease in the "Beer Belly" thread )
Just so I understand your description, the "less scripted" stuff involved a stab or slash directed anywhere from your throat to your pubis (but not your limbs) performed at full speed and with intent to wound and using a live blade? Or was it multiple stabs in a sewing machine action to different parts of the target area, or multiple slashes in rapid continuous motion? Can you describe exactly how it happened please? Was there any cue or was the attack unprompted? From what range? What stopped the attack? Mitch
Unprompted (expected, but no "go" word), 2'-3', not "sewing machine" (there wasn't a chance to) but blade would be redirected toward any available target if not controlled. Immobility and/or disarming would signal the stop. Not every occasion would begin with the knife wielder attacking, some were pre-emptive defences, which adds to the random element. Is this serving a purpose? Because if you don't believe it anyway, I'm not sure I can be bothered to type more on the subject.
I've done sumbrada, U-Drill and largo Mano drills with live blades - never attacks or defences. Using shock knives is about as extreme as in have gone The risk/reward ratio is far too narrow for me. Plus with my training partners (as opposed to my students) if it was live we would pretty much have killed each other because if we want to stab or cut you we will...all we usually manage is damage limitation on the defences
I'm not arguing the risk/reward point. I also think it's obvious that as much as the intent to cut might be there, in those circumstances it is not going to be as great as the intent to do everything possible to deny that opportunity and drop them before they get the chance. Anyway. I'd be interested in hearing about other people's experiences in knife defence training. Specifically, what is the consensus on how/when moving off-line occurs, and what about the role of "mirroring" (L to R, R to L sides or the opposite?). How about preferred techniques that have worked for you? Also footwork and whether inside or outside is preferred, and in which situations.
I have previously trained with Dan grade jujutsu people doing unscripted knife defense usingrolled up newspaper and tape. Highest percent seemed to be using the greco two on one, and near side footsweeps to put them down and make seperation, when I went down with them, disarms via driving the knife into the mats was the only thing that worked for me. Only light striking was allowed, pace was medium and overall 4 x30 mins max was all we trained over two or so months.
With newspaper, was it at all possible to keep track of possible cuts to your arm once you'd copped their weapon arm? I wouldn't have thought so. That was part of the reason I was asking about same/opposite sides. Did you find yourself getting into the two-on-one position from the inside or outside of your opponent's guard? Or did it vary, and if so was that variation dependent on the attack and/or grip?
we did it two different ways 1) stop when your cut up bad, or a decent stab, which keeps you honest about your abilities 2) keep on going no matter what - used to ingrain not stopping in that situation, otherwise stopping becomes a really bad habit. There not ideal but if there heavy enough the sting helps you keep track of cuts. usually as it starts from very close in, you take inside clinch, and transfer to outise as soon as possible.
I've made no judgement on this yet as I'd like more detail, that's the purpose of this discussion So it was a single attack? What distance did the attacker start from? Did they have to step in first? What speed did they attack at? Full speed? Half speed? What did they do with the weapon limb after the initial thrust or slash? Leave it out or seek to return it to starting position? Mitch
The answer to every one of those questions, with the exception of speed which was answered previously, is written in the text you quoted.
So it was a single stab with a live blade from close range at full speed? Am I reading that correctly? Someone stood approx 2' in front of you and at full speed tried to stab you anywhere from groin to throat. This happened several times and you were not injured? Mitch
Pretty much, yup. Though not "sewing machine", the attacker would try to redirect the knife to other targets after the initial attack, which as control of the weapon wrist/hand was achieved in every case was mainly trying to twist the grip to cut the controlling arm. If feints and limb slashing were used, I'm sure a trip to the hospital would have occured.
If I wanted to invent stories, I'm sure I could think of better. I will now refrain from mentioning any of my experiences, and only comment in technical terms on MA subjects on MAP.
Recreate it wearing a white t shirt and your attacker using a red marker pen. Film it and post it. Easy Mitch
Sady it won't happen. Marbo is the only “Martial Art” [known] that has a rule that members must never display [Pathwalker] methods and techniques in competition, display, or tournament. The Pathwalker conceals his/her abilities.
