Weapon Defence

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by smithter, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. smithter

    smithter New Member

    Hi everyone,
    Is there a specific martial art that trains weapon disarm/defence, if so which one is best? Thanks
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Lots of styles hit on it. There are two questions really. 1) Does this style address weapon defenses and disarms? And 2) are they actually good? We've all seen some pretty dire weapon defenses.

    My background is Filipino martial arts. We certainly spend a lot of time addressing weapon disarms and defenses. Though, again, the quality of them is going to depend greatly on who's doing the teaching. The more fanciful the defense or disarm, the less likely it is to work.

    As an example, the most trustworthy disarms I've seen are what I jokingly refer to as "percussion disarms." You hit the guy in the hand really hard with your own weapon. Then he drops his. Self-evident and realistic.
  3. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    what kind of weapons are you talking about?
  4. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    A better question is what types of weapons is the original poster talking about?

    EDIT: Please ignore this I thought you were asking to ap_Oweyn
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  5. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    hehe no ap_Oweyn got his reply in first. I was thinking if the OP was talking about "on the street" weapons than something like modern jujitsu (such as my style) covers it quite well, or any other art dedicated to self defence.
  6. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    The problem with "Percussive Disarms" is that you don't know where the weapon will end up after wards, if its one on one and its nowhere near the attacker, thats fine, but if you're in a group and you send the attackers knife flying - the knife could hit anyone, if a group are attacking you, you could just end up passing the weapon on to one of his mats who will hit you with it.

    Most weapon defenses I've worked on tend to concentrate on controling the weapon and removing it safely.

    Of course its important to note that the best form of self defense if faced with an armed opponent is to leave or give them what they want, more violent approaches should be a last resort.
  7. ninjedi

    ninjedi Valued Member

    Hatsumi Sensei has a video specifically on Takagi Yoshin Ryu Muto Dori, and there is also Muto Dori Gata within Togakure Ryu.

    Many of the general principles can be applied to just about any weapon, including a handgun; however, any idiot with half a brain should know that the best defense against someone holding a gun on you is to hand over your wallet and go home alive.


    Quite frankly, the best place to truly learn weapon disarm/defense would probably be a police (or military) academy.
  8. smithter

    smithter New Member

    the weapons i mean are, small knives, bats etc, the things thugs would use on the street. Thank you for your responces
  9. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I think the trouble with this argument is predicated on this idea that you have a menu of choices and the trick is to choose the appropriate move. Obviously, it would be preferable to control and/or retain the weapon. For the reasons you cited. But practically speaking, it's a hell of a lot easier to whack someone in the fingers with a weapon than it is to control an opponent's hand/arm (especially when that hand contains a small blade).

    That said, the percussive disarm is only one in a litany of choices for disarms, some of which involve retaining the weapon. Some of which involve ejecting it or at least prompting him to drop it.
  10. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    As Ninjedi said, generally its best to give people what they want - it can be replaced - your life cant.

    A lot of people trained to disarm attackers often think that because of the training that they should use it, not that it should be a last resort.

    I've been shown some techniques to disarm a guy with a gun, I wouldn't hesitate to give them everything of value on my person before I considered trying to disarm them.
  11. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Then I think you could do a lot worse than finding a good FMA school. Knives are generally addressed quite thoroughly. And blunt weapons of various sorts are covered from Day 1. Though much of FMA also involves YOU using a weapon at first. FMA generally starts with weapons use and then simplifies down to empty hand.
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I like another sort of percussive disarm.
    You hit the guy in the head really hard. :)
  13. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    With your car ;)
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I'd prefer to use your car to be honest.
    Ditch it and run. Let you get a visit from the peelers.
  15. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    PASmith has a history of leaving people for dead after speeding off in his car.

    Nottingham anyone?:D
  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Hahahha....eat my dust!
  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    "Friendlies" might be a consideration, but what are the attacker's mates doing while you're controlling and taking the weapon? You seem to be working under the assumption that only one of them is armed.

    Running away or "giving them what they want" isn't an option if the OP is having to deal with weapons as part of their job.

    Most knife defence demos you see deal with attacks to the head or body with whole body commitment and no element of grappling from the attacker. probably because these are the easiest to defend, and people can show off their "awesome" disarming skills. The problem is, with blades you don't have to commit like that, you can play with people, slashing their hands and forearms up if they try to grab your weapon. Also, many knife attacks are ambushes, not squaring up toe-to-toe. You'll be grabbed and held, quite possibly from behind, while very short-range stabs repeatedly punch holes in your chest cavity or bowels. Almost all advertised knife defences simply do not work under those circumstances.

    Ap Owen gave a sound strategy, assuming you have some kind of weapon yourself (which I'm guessing the OP won't have the luxury of, but anyway...), cracking hands and skulls whenever anyone comes near you sounds like a better idea than getting tied-up with a single opponent and one weapon when you have no idea who is tooled-up with what.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  18. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Even without a weapon, I like the strategy. One of the best empty hand disarms my first arnis teacher ever worked on me was simply punching me very hard in the bicep. Dropped that knife right quick. My arm wasn't much good for protecting my head immediately after that either, so his follow-up to my brain box was pretty unobstructed as well.
  19. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Driving a candy apple red Volkswagen backfires again. Dammit.
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Certainly, I did consider mentioning that, but unless someone was VERY confident about doing it without getting cut, I wouldn't advise it. Once you get close to someone with a knife, it's all to easy for them to cut you just by changing the angle of their wrist.

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