WC with Judo

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Gong_Sau_Rick, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    Hi I'm interested to hear about the experiences of any WC players either cross training with Judo or with extensive backgrounds in Judo.

    Would like a pretty random and free discussion but to get the ball rolling a bit here are some questions.

    - Did you find Judo as a whole to impact positively or negatively on your WC?
    - What elements of Judo did you find interfered with your WC the most?
    - Did you find sensitivity from chi sau helped or hindered learning grip fighting?
    - Did you find you that you could integrate Judo throws into your WC game or did you find the extra take downs redundant?
    - What system of WC did/do you train in?
    - Do you think BJJ is probably a better more logical system to cross train due to virtually no crossover?
    - Why would/wouldn't Judo be good supplement training with WC?


  2. Just Guess

    Just Guess Valued Member

    I only have a little bit of WC exposure through JKD, but I've been practicing Judo regularly for almost two years now. The only complementary area I see between them is the grip fighting/trapping aspect. Judo players who put time into developing their grip fighting develop very fast hand speed and can be very precise with their hand movement.
  3. Switch2

    Switch2 Banned Banned

    This has the potential to be a fascinating discussion.
    I've done both Judo and Wing Chun and have my own experiences to share, but I'd like to see who else is on board before comment.
  4. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    C'mon do tell. :D
  5. Just Guess

    Just Guess Valued Member

    One place where I can see a major head on collision is with centerline theory, or at least as how I understand it. A lot of it is just outright ignored, or at least never formally taught. For instance you don't really avoid crossing your arms over the centerline in Judo. I do it all the time in the process of grip fighting.

    For those who don't know throwing in Judo takes place in three steps. Off balancing (kuzushi), positioning to throw (tsukuri), and following through (kake). Anything that allows you to do these without exposing yourself to a counter is fair game in Judo.
  6. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    Just grabbing someone for more than a instant and with both hands is a spit in the face to WC. It's very either or, either I grab you to off balance, position and then throw you, or gain a superior position punching you and take you down with my stance.

    When I think about it this way I feel that judo has nothing to offer WC except newaza.

    It's grappling or trapping don't you think?
  7. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    You won't really know until you try it for yourself. Keep an open mind and invest some time to investigate it personally.

    IMO they are 2 very different methods so I don't think there will necessarily be any interference if you understand both methods. At least you will get some good resisting practice partners!
  8. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    Yeah I've taken 2 judo lessons so far, I've learned three throws, how to break fall and also some ground work.

    I'm wondering if Judo would be good for learning takedown defense, but then again I would imagine wrestling would be the best for learning takedown defence.
  9. forever young

    forever young Valued Member

    I have finished the wc system via a qualified wsl teacher, and have gained my blue belt in bjj (which isnt judo i know but depends on whom you listen to i suppose ;)) and i can tell you straight there is massive benefits to be gained from x training a grappling system (whether judo, bjj sambo wrestling etc etc)

    with regard to takedown defence, well i can assure you that in judo the first thing you should learn is breakfalling because you are going to get thrown a lot (as im sure you have found out - unless they are taking it easy on the noob, which certainly happens in bjj and i would imagine in judo too)

    BUT one of the main side effects of this is that eventually you will become much harder to take down both via the virtue of grip/body/hip positioning and also the ability to counter.

    also the grip fighting while at first might seem contrary to what wc teaches, infact has nothing to do with it and unless you are some mindless android who cant think, it should have little to no bearing to what you have learned in wc and it is all simply tools in the tool box so you should be able to select the correct tool for the job and if that tool happens to be an ability to grab and hold someone who cannot move/escape (and believe me when a decent judoka grips you you aint going anywhere - despite the oft thought 'just punch 'em' defence which would most likely end up with you on your as$), what this also means is if there is a time/reason to hit someone you are not going to suddenly be incapable of doing so simply because you have trained/crosstrained judo/grappling

    bear in mind that the best way to approach this kind of fighting is biu gee territory/mindset where your wc has broken down/become ineffective/inapropriate and you NEED to pull something else out of the bag
    just my 02
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2008
  10. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    Nice write up forever young, much appreciated.
  11. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    Yes, that was a very good post.
  12. Aloysius

    Aloysius Valued Member

    A wing chunner can snake in and out of gates to grab and counter grab their opponent using things like Bui Sau and Huen Sau.

    Anyone good at chi sau will have a massive advantage when it comes to being grabbed AND grabbing other people, be it Judo or bjj.

    I think WC and judo complement each other beautifully.

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