Watching Space

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu Resources' started by MattK, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. Kalabora

    Kalabora Valued Member

    This is pretty weird and somekind of ufo conspirisist thing, but here:

    Click Here
  2. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    I suspect that Ben & I are talking about the same thing, but for some reason our brains simply choose to organize and present the perceptual data in different ways. For me it's more the kind of visual shift of attention that (as an overly simple example) allows you to see a chessboard as either a black board with white squares on it, or a white board covered with black squares.

    (Of course you could also say it's simply "a board" with both black and white squares on it, which is how most people see it. ;) )

    Stepping up the complexity of shapes a bit and adding the temporal factor as well, let's say you're driving an automobile and you're getting onto the freeway, where you're moving very slowly compared to the vehicles whipping past the on-ramp. How do you get to the right place at the right time safely, so you can continue your journey without getting smashed?

    Well, you could try focusing on the vehicles themselves and figuring out which one you want to pull out in front of, or behind. . .but it's not really what I'd recommend for optimal results: It's analogous to focusing on your opponent(s) in a fight. You'll do much better to watch the developing spaces between the vehicles, and moving so that you will be there to meet a good one as it opens for you.

    This is still overly simplistic, as practically speaking the cars are all moving linearly within a plane. And I'm still only talking about perceiving the space, not manipulating it. But you can begin extrapolating from there to three-dimensional space, which is defined (just as the chessboard's black and white squares define each other in 2-dimensional space) by every part of every solid object within the area being considered. And of course you have to also perceive the shape of the space in terms of how it can change through time.

    "Balls" certainly sound simpler, and if only for that reason I'd like to better understand Ben's view. :cool:
  3. Kalabora

    Kalabora Valued Member

    So, like the vase example way back on page one or two you are focusing on the surroundings? And by doing this can notice changes in that particular area of the subject. Which would in turn tune you into the mechanical motions of the being and thereby reveal their intent or movement?
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2005
  4. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    No: The "vase" is the space shaped by the human head on each side. It's the exact opposite of what you're seeing. :D

    Last edited: Aug 15, 2005
  5. Kalabora

    Kalabora Valued Member

    Well, actually I saw the faces first. Anyway I meant that and the cars being the faces and the empty space in between is the vase.
  6. xen

    xen insanity by design


    the car analogy is great...i needed an example like that, something we all do everyday, where we focus on the space, not the object...looking for more of the same will keep me busy for next day or two :)


    yeah, so much to get our heads round and only one life-time to do it (allegedly).

    i had another thought about your perception of spheres. I don't know if this will help (or perhaps you already considered it?)...

    I'd hazard a guess that for you and others who have developed the "kukan" awareness, the moment your perception shifted was akin to a 'eureka' moment. Now you have a choice. You know its there, you know what you see and you know it is the next stage in your development. Do you keep your perception of it to yourself? Or, being a teacher, do you try to help your students perceive it more readily than you did. (for isn't that the purpose of education, to accelerate the learning of the next generation, so they can get to the creative stuff sooner and advance the discipline?)

    Now, lets assume that the 'spheres' are unique to you. But they arose spontaneously as a reflection of your personal relationship with your environment. I'll bet that you could teach people to perceive the spheres, because you are able to provide both the metaphor and the explanation of the metaphors relevance. Thus the mind of the student has what it needs before it is ready, and when the eureka moment comes, the 'spheres' metaphor is already there, the brain just goes...whoa, new perceptions..hang on, this fits that kukan stuff i never really understood...spheres...bang, the next generation see spheres because that was a description of kukan provided by the previous generation.

    i could be way off the mark, it was just a thought that dropped in earlier :)
  7. specourt

    specourt Hero in a half-wit shell

    Ben- I'm determined to understand this idea even if I am never able to achieve it in practice.

    So, as you say (I think), the visualisation of the balls may well just be your brain's tool for processing the data you recieve in order to manipulate the kukan.
    However if you found yourself in a situation where you were under great pressure and likely to lose the fight (impossible I know :love: ), say many attackers variously armed, all well trained and attacking at high speed:
    Would the balls visualisation disappear, or would you still see them but be unable to process the info quickly enough?
    Or have I missed the point again? :confused:
  8. bencole

    bencole Valued Member

    Most certainly! It was like, "Oh, my gawd! So that's what Soke's been playing with all these years!" :D

    Most certainly I show my students. I've made that point VERY clear in my writings on the subject on boards and in my two articles in BujinMag. To the aghast of many I'm sure, I no longer teach the Kihon Happo or Sanshin no Kata. My total focus is on passing on the Kukan, because to me, that is EVERYTHING that Soke is teaching.

    I am trying to teach "the thread" that will allow my students to see any technique from any ryuha (even Koryu) or any martial art (Systema, etc.) and KNOW precisely what needs to be done to make "it work." That is the essence of martial arts that Soke is teaching, imo. It is much larger than any individual collection of techniques (e.g. Kihon Happo) or any nine ryuha, in my opinion.

    Well, I am going to try to do just that to people who do not train with me regularly. I've been asked to do a seminar on the subject of "Kukan-based Taijutsu" (which I have dubbed the "Playing with your Poles and Balls" Seminar :rolleyes: ) in a couple of cities (NYC and Houston) this Fall. Rather than have me tell people how it went, it might be good if some people who attend can put in their two cents.


    We'll find out in a few years. A couple of my students have made INCREDIBLE progress in their Taijutsu in just six months of training with these concepts. The real test is whether they can ever teach the same ideas and get the same results on others. It does little good if a "theory" can only hold true for a particular individual (e.g. me, Soke, Noguchi, etc.).

    I earnestly believe that what Soke is doing is ATTAINABLE, and that through proper training in these concepts, it is possible to skip over a lot of wheel spinning and get better in a shorter amount of time. A good teacher (of which I hope am one) needs to be able to say, "Even though I did this, it was not important for my growth. I will not make my students do that just because I went through it." I try to do this with my own students and hope that they can thoroughly kick my a55 some day! :rolleyes:

    We'll see....

    I'm afraid I don't understand the question.

    To me, so long as I can keep control of the kukan balls, I'm not going to "lose the fight." My struggle is not with the individuals, it is with these balls. Controlling these balls ACTUALLY MANIPULATES the individuals who are trying to do me harm. When I lose control of the balls, things turn into "Kuzushi-based" Taijutsu. So I would just turn to that option until I could again regain control of the balls.

    Controlling the balls makes speed or numbers of attackers less of a threat than they would be otherwise. You have MUCH longer time to kill before moving when you get good at manipulating the balls. We've done some experiments, constantly pushing back the time before moving. It's incredible how much extra time one has if you can control these balls. Speed is pretty much meaningless as well from what are experiments show.

  9. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    I would just add to Ben's post -- and he's alluded to this before, himself -- that if you control the Kukan you effect Kuzushi (take the opponent's balance) as well. Thus, if your main focus is on helping your students understand/use kukan, they will also be learning about kuzushi.

    Hence, I'm not at all convinced that the usual progression one goes through in most arts to reach "spooky level" artistry (e.g., speed/power, to effortless kuzushi, to "aiki"-type concepts) is necessary.

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