This kind of thread is the reason we wrote this: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26991
Not avoid as such, but certainly not favour. Of course, some weights machines have advantages for some programmes. Incidentally, your last link favours free weight over machines. This one I found sums it up nicely for me: Here The most important points being to me that strength gains on free weights carry over to machines better than vice versa, and that free weights transfer better into 'real life' applications. Plus, I don't agree (as someone with unfortunately too much experience of rehab) that machines are safer for rehab. (Starting light) free weights are better IMO, as they don't force your movement into a groove that may not be so natural or push into isolation. The stabilizer muscles are often the exact ones you want to target for rehab. I'm generally with Jax. And not only dos Remedios but Rippetoe and Cosgrove/Schuler agree that the bulk of the work should be free weights (groan). KE, that FAQ thread is fine, but doesn't give reasons which is probably why this subject keeps coming up.
Well, based on the quotes you put up, I don't see anything in them that refutes what I say. Of course I agree with using free weights as much as possible. THAT'S WHAT I DO!!! however, your quote also says "as much as possible" and "primarily free weights" I wouldn't be surprised if latter in that book they tell you that machines have their uses, which is what I'm saying. Incidentally: I have continued getting the opinions of professionals, and they all agree that they are useful for beginners as an introduction and to experienced people as a change of pace.
Quote from the very BEGINNING of that last link "Machine weights are ideal for beginners. They are safe to use, can be easily handled, and can teach you basic strength training movements." Which is one of my points. Of course not favor. I never said favor. A set or two on machines for beginners and a single workout every now and then for experienced. Here is the last portion of your link: "Since the movements associated with weight machines are easier than those associated with free weights, people who have never lifted weights should initially se machines to train their major muscles and general motor patterns. Once they have acquired a general strength base, it will be easier for them to move on to training more specific movements with free weights. Those who are in rehab for an injury should also use machines rather than free weights to isolate the injured joint and prevent the possible exacerbation of an injury that can come with the added physical stress of handling free weights." Again, supporting my point. I would never say use machines all the time. Some do and it works for them. Good for them. I say they are a tool to be used when appropriate. Not shunned.
I agree. For anyone that is serious about there training they should be using free weights. But as an introduction for beginners I think that a cable machine, will do the job.
Any weight lifting can cause damage, just the same as it can cause irreparable damage to muscles. The growth plates arguement is often used, yet damage to growth plates is primarily caused by impact, not the kind of stress imposed by resistance training. The primary cause of growth plate fractures is competitive sports, accounting for a third of injuries. Does this mean that football will cause damage to the growth plates? Maybe you should ask Peter Crouch, he could have been huge. There is a secondary cause of damage, that of chronic stress of overuse. However, a 3 days a week routine with plenty of rest won't even start to approach chronic stress levels nor overuse, especially if the trainee is using timed deloading phases every 10 weeks or so. The only tenuous link left is that steroid abuse often leads to problems in bone growth as has been seen in children who are taking prescribed courses over a long time period. If an adolescent thinks that he's reached the limit of what he can achieve and starts using AAS then it's his fault.
I pretty much agree with all that you have said but still draw the conclusion that at 14 any weight training should be supervised. (at least initially)
Cool. We mostly agree then. I'll break open a can of rainbows. Bugger. In that case, I'm just gonna hafta go ahead and disagree with myself! For beginners I think free weights are better. 1) Free weights train you in the correct path in terms of form. 2) Conversely, machines teach you the wrong general motor patterns! 3) Free weights train your stabilisers. For rehab cases (most anyway) I think free weights are better. 1) Most people who have some damage or other to muscles/tendons have not damaged a major muscle, but one of those stabilisers. So by training machines which avoid those stabilisers altogether but train the big muscles, it means if your big muscle gets stronger and your stabiliser stays the same, as soon as you do a compound movement off the machine your stabiliser isn't going to be able to do its job and is going to ping again. 2) Conversely free weights enable you to train both at the same time with sensible weights you know your body can handle. 3) Machines tempt you to try too big weights too quickly.
Did I not? The OP wanted advice on a routine. We told him to go and do some weights. He disappeared saying he was going to do some machine or other (and hasn't been heard from since! Hopefully he's not in hospital having snapped his ACL from lifting 200 kg on a leg press! ) We then started debating whether machines were good for beginners. Here, have a can of rainbows. And cheers, Tophalf, I've got sixpacks of the damn stuff! :love: :jester: :angel:
That made me laugh also. I thought we were back on topic as well. Steriod question came up, was answered...back to exercise specific comments!! The OP has disapperead, haven't they? Hmmmm....hope they are good!
Lifting weights will not stunt your growth. Complete myth. Tons of teens start weight training and they don't stunt growth. Olympic lifters sometimes start as young as 13. Also it takes years of hard work, sweat, blood, and serious dedication to become a raging freak. You won't be huge overnight. But you will gain a lot of strength. If your dad's home set consists of a machine, don't bother using it. Start off with barbell training to utilize the stabilizer muscles and learn perfect technique from scratch. And again, if you are taking in enough nutrients, your growth won't be stunted IF you train properly. And don't use the excuse "I can't train properly so I won't lift" What's wrong with being average/short anyways? It's easier on your joints as you get older and it looks a lot better than being tall and lanky.
13 is the age reccommended for starting weight training but if your worried about bulking up, Maretti nailed it, PUSH-UPS vary the hand postions and pull-ups/chin-ups
Originally Posted by nitraiders [qoute] its cos if i use my dads home gym set, i will stump myself from growth cos i am a young chap. hopefully i would grow 13cm to 185 cm (you convert it into feet, i cannot be bothered). [end of quote] LMAO......where in the world did you hear that lifting weights would stunt your growth? You have been talking to some crazy people if they're telling you this. For big tri ceps I suggest doing push downs (5 sets of 10 going up 10 lbs. on each set) or over the head extentions (3 sets of 10 going up 5 pounds each set). For bi ceps I recommend doing straight bar curls with narrow grip (3 sets of 10 going up 10 pounds each set), med grip (3 sets of 10), and wide grip (3 sets of 10).
Discussion on steroids moved to new thread here: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84085
You won't stunt your growth! The only time exercise will do that is if you actually injure your growth plates. We're talking serious enough stress to cause a fracture. You won't cause that kind of damage lifting weights...
