Walkden-Shiyun controversy

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Mitlov, May 26, 2019.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Sadly, I agree. I remember the excitement of TKD becoming an Olympic Sport and I remember staying up late watching the Olympics for the occasional bouts they'd show on TV. Over the years, between the rules changes and changes in how TKD is used in competition, I don't bother watching the events anymore.

    I still love TKD and think it can be a great standup style, but I don't care for the 'official' sparring rules or competition any more
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  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I personally wouldn't call the 2000 Olympics the good old days. I remember a ton of stoppages (after nearly every kick) and over-theatrical kiaps as people tried to make the judge call a kick "hard enough" given the very subjective standard at the time.

    I'm not a huge fan of this new pushing tactic, but I think the constant stoppages under the 2000 rules were worse.
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    No. But I enjoyed the excitement of the 1988 (and subsequent) demonstration sports... it was nice to see TKD getting recognized and I remember a lot of excitement at schools and tournaments and people getting excited to go to the State Championships hoping to earn a berth at a National shot. Sadly, I think once TKD became an 'official' sport, it really got hurt in terms of creating a larger difference between the art and the sport.
  4. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    But I think it should be remembered that in 1988, it was just an exhibition, so the athletes' primary mission was to put on a good show. Individually winning was a secondary priority. No matter what the rules are, you're not likely to see exploitation of rules for tactical advantage in that context; you're going to see people "really going at it."

    All that changes when it becomes an official sport and medals are on the line. That's when certain athletes start to game the rules to win in a way that feels iffy from a sportsmanship perspective. You see it in far more than just TKD. You see it in Olympic fencing, wrestling, boxing, even figure skating (where under current rules, an imperfect execution of an extremely difficult jump is worth more than a flawless execution of a slightly less difficult technique, leading to some pretty sloppy looking wins).

    Edit: here the 1993 world championships. Old rules, but medals on the line instead of an exhibition event. The result? As often as not, one kick --> clinch --> stoppage. I don't think the greatness of the 1988 Olympic exhibition was a result of the rule set itself. Actually, I'd argue that there were far fewer stoppages at the 2019 world championships, even if there's an increased emphasis on front leg techniques.

    Last edited: May 31, 2019
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  5. Monkey_Magic

    Monkey_Magic Well-Known Member

    That’s the real shame about all this. There’s a great standup style in there, but it’s being lost because of competition rules. I think both ITF in the UK and World Taekwondo suffer from their respective competition rules.

    If there was more emphasis on the teachings of people like Paul Anslow, then TKD would be in a better place.
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  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Stuart Anslow. :)
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  7. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I googled Mr. Anslow for a couple minutes and what I found appeared to be the TKD equivalent of Ian Abernathy, taking sections of forms and turning them into self defense throws, takedowns, etc demonstrated in an almost one-step format. But I'm really not familiar with the body of his work. What would "competitive sparring, the Anslow way" look like in practice?
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Afaik Stuart does a variety of sparring formats (including something that looks like MMA in a dobok) in his own club and for gradings.
    His people do compete in standard ITF rules competitions though so he still retains that sport aspect.
    In contrast to Iain Abernethy who does no sport karate/kumite style sparring at all.
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  9. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Correct as I understand it, but his "Traditional Sparring," whilst allowing all techniques, is still semi-contact.
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  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Iain abernethy has also ditched 3, 2 and 1 step sparring as well as sport kumite. Although I think his 2 man bunkai drills can look a bit 1 step-ish from time to time (albeit much less rigid and quasi-traditional).

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