Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by flyingleopard, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. flyingleopard

    flyingleopard New Member

    How many breakoffs are there from these2 chains?
    Anybody know about american schools of shaolin kempo?
    Its run by 8th robert pearls.
    Anybody knows where he came from mattera, villari?
  2. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    How many breakoffs from those two chains? I'm not entirely sure, but quite a few from each. Certianly more than have been well doccumented as many former instructors aren't interested in founding their own chain, they just want to teach martial arts to thier own standards (for better or worse).

    Intersting that you ask about ASSK as I thought that organization now entirely defunct, with perhaps the exception of Robert Pearlswig himself. He was a third or fourth degree under Villari before he broke off. Where his promotions have come from since then is entirely unknown to anyone other than Pearlswig and whoever gave them to him, if anyone.

    Regardless of where the rank came from, Pearlswig himself is, or at least was in his time a good fighter with a fairly deep understanding of his art, such as it is. Most the blackbelts trained by him personaly are of a respectable level of ability. However, some of his head and assiatant instructors left much to be desired in terms of skill and understanding as they went from white to black belt in two years or sometimes a bit less.

    The organization as a business went under due to poor business practices resulting in a spate of lawsuits leveld against them by both former students, and instructors. A lot of pressure was put on students to sign up for "green, brown, or black belt programs" that apparently provided litte benefit to the student other than rapidly sliming down their bank accounts. These practices coupled with ego and other personality issues among his head instructors frequently drove longer term students away to other organizations or other arts entirely.

    Assuming American Schools of Shao Lin Kenpo has been resurected and you're considering studying with them, do your research carefully. Find out how long the instructor has actually been training (not just how long they tell you they have, as many would lie about it) and who with. Watch some classes with a very critical eye to personality issues and depth of understanding, as this is where most the problems arrise. Good luck and be well.
  3. flyingleopard

    flyingleopard New Member

    Thanks sliver, I was just wondering about. I saw it on another site but not alot of backgroung info though.
    Have you heard of any other good breakoffs?
  4. NonChan

    NonChan New Member

    Hehe, I know this topic is a tad old...but I thought I'd add my input anyways.

    As far as ASSK goes, its not dead yet, hehe. I've been going to a small ASSK school in Dallas, Oregon for a couple years now, and so far its been very enjoyable. I've never been pressured to sign up for any particular plan...and the number of students at our school is rapidly growing. (especially for being in such a small town)

    My instructor's been practicing the martial arts for...quite a while now. I asked once how long, but I forget now the exact number ^_^;; I do know he trained directly under Master Pearl though...*nodnod*

    So yes...while I havent been able to get much information on all the stuff that happend with Villari, I do know that ASSK is alive and well, and so far I've had nothing but good experiences under the organization.
  5. asskstudent

    asskstudent New Member

    Master Pearl

    I realize that this is an older topic, but I have some valid information that I would like to share. I am a stuend of Master Pearl's, Studying under head instructor Scott A. Miller (san dan 3rd degree black belt). Nearly everything you have stated about Master Pearl and American Schools of Shao-Lin Kempo is false, I know this for a fact. I have been studying under this system for almost 2 years now and am currently one rank below brown belt. Master Pearl personally cundocts all belt testing procedures and ALL of his black belts, instructors and students alike, train directly under him consistantly. Master Pearl is an ethical person. All of his black belts are authentic and none have ever lied to anyone about their rank or length of study, it would be against everything we believe in. Our black belts are widely recognized as some of the best in the world, and there is a reason for that. You are not given such a reputation lightly, and Master Pearl would never disrespect his black belts or the martial arts community in general by misrepresenting anything. Unless you consider caring about customers and working hard to provide a service to the community a personality issue then there all none in sight among anyone in our system. Before people are welcomed into our classes they are screened by instructors. Depth of understanding is also not an issue. As I have said our black belts are considered among the best in the world, Master Pearl's black belts are no exeption. I am extrememly dissapointed to see someone putting out incorrect information and disrespecting Master Pearl. Do not talk about things you know nothing about. I have personally conversed with Master Pearl on a few occasions, and have tested for 6 ranks so far in front of him (for the record that is every test I have taken and he personally conducts all tests). Master Pearl is an honerable man who is "the real thing". I am honered to train under him and you would be lucky to find someone as talented as him to train under.

    In the furure please refrain from speaking on topics to which you are obviously obliviouse.

    Last edited: Nov 8, 2005
  6. TheKai

    TheKai New Member

    Wow, Never heard of Master pearl or his renowed black belts. I wonder if there is a website so maybe I can lighten my ignorance
  7. dostoevsky

    dostoevsky New Member

    Do a google for "Robert Pearlswig" and you'll find him listed on multiple websites (mostly just references).

    At Master Pearl is listed as a direct student of Fred Villari having acheived the rank of between 5-7th degree black belt.

    At he is credited with a 7th degree black belt under Villari, and it appears he was involved with (not sure if he ran it or not) San Diego Shaolin Kempo Karate between 1985-1990.

    The reason I mention these sites is that it seams Master Pearls' rank was being questioned. These independent sites indicate that he is at least a 7th degree black belt under Fred Villari.

    At (the official ASSK website) Master Pearl is shown as an 8th degree black belt under Fred Villari, and it also lists his SKK lineage through Nicholas Cerio, William Chow, etc.

    Hope this helps clear the water a little.
  8. TheKai

    TheKai New Member

    I see, So he's a 8th degree under Villari. WEow okay now it;s clear that he is renowned
  9. dostoevsky

    dostoevsky New Member

    I apoligize if I offended you.

    It was my intention to provide some information that would possibly be helpful to people in doing their own research of Master Pearl.

    It was not my intention to show Master Pearl to be renowned (as I do not know one way or the other if he is), only that he is recognized in the world of Shaolin Kempo, without any negative comments (other than this forum). This would lend itself to the conclusion that he probably has a clue to what he is doing; I have seen several other Shaolin Kempo schools and instructors blasted by former students.

    I understand that just because someone's name appears in numerous different independent websites does not make a person a legitimate instructor, but the fact that he has been doing it for so long without anyone smearing him on the internet does help (30 years according to his main dojo; I can easily confirm at least 20 years, and have read an independent article indicating him to have been one of Fred Villaris' top instructors prior to that).

    I take everything I see on the internet with a grain of salt. I recognize it to be full of many truths, many misrepresentations, and some outright lies. All I can do is take what I see and try to make an educated decision. :rolleyes:

    Again, I apologize for any misunderstanding caused by my previous post.
  10. TheKai

    TheKai New Member

    Our black belts are widely recognized as some of the best in the world, and there is a reason for that

    As I have said our black belts are considered among the best in the world, Master Pearl's black belts are no exeption.

    It was not my intention to show Master Pearl to be renowned (as I do not know one way or the other if he is), only that he is recognized in the world of Shaolin Kempo, without any negative comments (other than this forum).

    Very differnt from your original post! So your teacher is famous within the Shaolin Kenpo circles
  11. dostoevsky

    dostoevsky New Member

    The first two quotes that you seam to be attributing to me belong to someone else; I don't believe that I ever referenced these two quotes, nor was it my intention to back them up. My original post was intended to reply to your question "Wow, Never heard of Master pearl or his renowed black belts. I wonder if there is a website so maybe I can lighten my ignorance" with some information that I thought you were interested in. I was not trying to back up asskstudents post.

    I was being completely sincere, and I was not attempting to question your post.

    The last quote is mine, but you'll notice that I used the word recognized, not famous.

    Again, sorry for the confusion.
  12. TheKai

    TheKai New Member

    Your right I did'nt look to close at the user name. Sorry
  13. asskstudent

    asskstudent New Member

    I would like to apologize for being a bit oversensitive concerning silver's post on Master Pearl. I realize that most sources of information on American Schools of Shao-Lin Kempo tends to be limited and cryptic, but there is a reason for that. We believe that if you are interested in joining us and training with us then you are welcome. We do not encourage people to watch us or simply make extensive information about our system available. Part of our system is the apparent mystic that accompanies it. Other systems allow you to train at home with videos or even watch classes that are being conducted. This allows for maneuvers to be copied, often incorrrectly, and our schools attempts to prevent this. I now understand that silver's post was not an attack on Master Pearl as it first appeared, and I appreciate the clarification.

  14. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    I'm oblivious? Funny, I thought I had made the mistake of studying with his organization for about four years and going beyond black belt with them. Silly me. Why don't you ask him about the lawsuits in San Diego, and the reasons ASSK doesn't exist there any more? Or better yet, go so far as to talk to some of the former students down there about their opinions on the qualifications of his instructors. At this point I'll refrain from naming names of the instructors in question for the sake of decency and the fact it's a long dead issue. Perhaps you should find out about who you're talking to before you say they don't know what they're talking about. However, I'll do you the favor of commenting no more on this formerly dead thread, and good luck with that whole ASSK thing.
  15. kickingfist

    kickingfist New Member

    Masters self defense centers, shaolin self defense centers, masters of karate,

    shaolin arts.

    The east coast is littered with villari breakoffs. Just google shaolin kempo.
  16. FightingMonk2k3

    FightingMonk2k3 Valued Member

    i knwo of Grandmasters Mattera and Demascos are both former Villari students. i know for a fact that GM Mattera does the California group of USSD's (i almost signed up w/ them but Livermore is too far away for me to commute to).

    honestly, those 2 GM's are wanting just $$ and to waste your time bcuz i talked to some of the students in USSD in Livermore, CA; and one girl said for the 1st degree brown belt test (shes one rank higher than me when i talked to her, summer 2005) took like 11 or 12 hours. i'm not going to waste my day just for 1 stupid rank. it'd be a waste of time for me. and besides, 12hrs for a belt test is overkill. i can understand 3 to 5hrs but not 12hrs.

    Villari's gave me a strong background of martial arts though. i made it to the 2nd degree brown belt in that system with in 4 years and i was starting my 5th year there in the Scarborough, Maine location b4 i moved to CA.
  17. kickingfist

    kickingfist New Member

    All they want is money in my opinion. You can't own a school you have to pay 15000 for the college, if thats not mcdojo I dont know what is.
  18. dbmasters

    dbmasters Valued Member

    I know two black belts in Kenpo whp's black belt tests lasted days and days...sleep deprivation, mindgames, and of course, sparring and technique tests a body full of bruises...12 hours does sound like a lot, but, well, I guess it's how much it means to you.
  19. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Hey, it's not "Survivor", or the Air Force desert survival test.
    All I want to know when I test someone for black belt is; if they can demonstrate the requirements for black belt, in a proficient manner with the high skill level I require for a black belt. Just doing that should be 2-3 hours of pain and exhaustion.
    Long before they stepped on to the mat for their black belt test, I already knew what their level of character and dedication to the art was.
    And if they ever need to use their skills to defend themselves, it will probably be over in 2-3 minutes.
  20. dbmasters

    dbmasters Valued Member

    I know many people who weep at such statements...

Share This Page