Video: Fajin Demo by the Associate Instructors of AYZYIM

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by nujaubung, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Demonstrstion of Aikido kuzushi. An older guy unbalances and prepares to throw a six foot four inch opponent.

    Timing body alignment and unbalancing in more than one direction leads to a powerfull throw.

    SOME shall pretend it is a mystical or secret element. This is BS of the worse kind. There is ONLY one secret of powerfull technique and that is HARD sincere training.

    Attached Files:

  2. 19thlohan

    19thlohan Beast and the Broadsword

    That's just not true! I learned magic I tell ya!

    Little known fact that my sigong would kill me over if he knew I was telling you all this. Hiya is Chinese for [SIZE=+2]SHAZAM![/SIZE]
  3. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Yes,I guess you did confuse me w/someone else re:"As I said, if you have already firmly grasped the essence of the internal martial arts, you don't need to learn this."You didn't say that to me on here.

    Yes,I read quite a bit on your site.Not everything,there's a lot of articles and things.

    If when you mention the state of the art you mean the fact that most people don't learn a lot of these mechanics I have no argument with that.It's pretty obvious even among those who practice very seriously and have achieved some skills in certain areas.That's one reason I raised the point about Yang system practitioners being especially pointed out.Observation over the years seems to be that they're no more deficient than anybody else,and I would have raised that point in another fashion if another system I didn't have any background in had been named.I'm not one of those "How dare you insult my sytstem" guys.

    (I'm also figuring neither one of us is speaking of the IMA exercise crowd regarding this sort of training!)

    Now when I read "an unknown method/same effect/diff approach" I'm not sure what that means.While individual training exercises may vary the purpose to exercise/instill such mechanics,and the mechanics themselves are mostly going to be in the same general ballpark. For instance I note your program utilizes several post/stake training methods.Some people use one,or three,or just key postures from their system.They still work in the context of this training.Which is obvious because some people do have these mechanics.

    Of course,the order in which things are imparted can vary from system to system and teacher to teacher as well as the formal training methods.A Hsing I practitioner is going to learn different formal exercises for these things than a Pa Kua fellow.

    Please note I did say " I'm not saying the program you're selling's not a good training method." In spite of the "test" vid having the dummy in such a terrible position I ken the general skills being worked on.I would in all friendliness suggest a better vid demo as regards the dummy's position.

    When you use words like "revolutionary" however,it seems a bit much.Kinda comes off that nobody else has any of this.Maybe not how you meant it,but readers here shouldn't be required to refer to articles on your site for clarification.I know people who have systematic methods for imparting these skills-how the heck do you think I know about them?And while there may be specific differences and emphases between systems-(such as your exclusivity in utilizing the balls of the feet)- and teachers,as I said,overall they're going to be in the same ballpark.Unless you're utilizing totally different mechanics than anyone else in these pursuits,which I would doubt.

    I'm not concerned personally w/who endorsed your method,however when making such statements it would be better to include at least a few names for your reader's sake.

    I truly wish you good fortune in your endeavors to impart these skills.

    On a historical note to everyone,while Empty Hand's statement that these things are normally reserved for indoor students/disciples is true,this has been true only in the modern era post popularization of the various systems.In previous times much of these were taught,and had to be, as a matter of course as everyone was basically an indoor student as they were learning it for fighting-otherwise a lot of their stuff wouldn't work,and in the days of taking/accepting challenges this would mean the teacher would lose both face and revenue.I don't think too many Hsing I teachers lost face.

    Bon appetitte!
  4. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Me thinks this thread is a new name on some older concepts.
  5. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    The Doc nailed it.

    despite variations on this theme, these are essentially classical drills common in tai chi styles to my knowledge.

    There used to be a clip of BKF bouncing somone. In the Yang family system the various drills are called ' dynamic pushing'.

    I would echo El Medico when he advises that the receiver can take up a less square on stance for these training exercises.

    Nujaubung, your schools clips have been discussed here a fair few times. Not that long ago in the tai chi section actually. I've always defended (in principle) what I see as essentially not much more that a training exercise that develops and refines certain attributes.

    The problem you face is really one of perception and acceptance. Some of the jargon doesn't help either quite frankly. For example the perception that this is something dressed up as a party trick will be hard to shake off if the reciever stays square on, as you can appreciate this exagerates the effects.

    What must be stressed is that these are very much compliant drills, and they are in effect mimicking the 'throwing' of a weight - hence the development and training of force. The stance of the receiver makes all the difference to the resistant effect of this weight. The way you do it makes the reciever effectively 'lighter' and easier to send back (usually scrambling for footing)

    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
  6. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Ive seen some people demonstrate this as Chi force. :(
  7. nujaubung

    nujaubung Valued Member

    Thanks for your blessing and I have a proposal for you. If you attend the workshop and still think it is not a revolutionary method (at least in the world of internal martial arts) afterwards, we will reimburse your workshop fee and travel expense. The only thing we request you to do for us is to clarify this for us in this forum.
  8. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    Im doing Chi right now.........can you feeeeelllll iiiiiitttt yyyyyyyyeeeeeeeTTT?
  9. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Here's a clip of a uk guy from Sheffield called Dave Nicholsen. He used to train in Yang family tai chi system back in the day..

    They are demonstrating a 'dynamic pushing' exercise here. After you also get to see his student doing some full contact. I think you can see at least on one occasion a pretty obvious application of the exercise.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
  10. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    nujaubung, I am interested in what you are doing that is so revolutionary and unique that is not being done in sports labs across the world?

    Don't you think every major wrestling and judo program world wide is working on exactly the same thing? Your an American, don't you think every pro and college football team doesn't have strength and line coaches working on the exact same type of bio-mechanics as your describing? I am willing to bet their budgets are probably a tad higher than yours.

    If you want to prove your revolutionary methods there is a simple way to it. Take it to a nearby universities sports lab and have it tested and documented.

    Till then you need better proof than "pay me money and I'll show you".

  11. nujaubung

    nujaubung Valued Member

    Thank you for your suggestion.

    The power expressed in pushing, as shown in the video, is only one aspect of the Pre-Heaven Power Method which results in something more visible (and perhaps more entertaining) than others (e.g., striking, because you cannot really strike a student). Martial art is probably the only sport which requires a practitioner to strike forcefully in all kinds of postures. And to be able to strike continuously and smoothly with power is the major focus of the method.

    We don't claim the method to be revolutionary unless it is supported by a comprehensive survey. I am a university engineering professor and I do know the seriousness of making such a claim. We also understand that anything revolutionary is hard to be accepted in the beginning. However, we believe what Chinese say on 緣份. That is, if we are meant to be linked together, we will meet and link together eventually. We also believe that anyone who attends the workshop will feel it is lucky for him/her to make this decision.
  12. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Wow, the Chi is strong with you young lio
  13. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Thanks very much for the offer.While not all that far from IL,(upstate NY) I am not a man of mean$. I also spent my vacation time camping deep in the big woods.

    Thanks again,tho'.
  14. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    I would doubt that anybody in the sports world as you mentioned is doing this sort of thing as regards some of the mechanics.If I was coaching a baseball team I wouldn't bother teaching 'em this stuff.

    Here's an example of one aspect - spending a good deal of time doing solo exercises to utilize movement initiating from muscle groups not usually used as initiators,or used in the fashion that they are used in these systems.

    So I ask you,as well as all the usual things such as aerobic work,strength training,stretching,drilling,bag/pad work,sparring,etc,etc,do you have the time to spend another hour or two every day to cultivate these mechanics? Do you want to bother? In what I can only describe as what would be repetitive and boring exercises requiring constant acute concentration on the muscle groups involved. Trust me,sitting in a deep horse while throwing straight shots for extended periods is more exciting.

    Some years ago I described for Slip one of these mechanics in regards to throwing a rear hand.I said something about could a western boxer learn this? Yeah.Does he need to? No.

    I'd wager Earnie Shavers,considered the hardest hitter in the history of boxing didn't use 'em!

    For some of us,it's just that we got involved in systems that use these things,some use a few,some a lot.And some really require them to enable function in application according to the dictates of the way the system generates power past a basic level in the system.This is especially true of those referred to as the Chinese "internal" systems,but other systems such as Southern Mantis contain some of these things at some point in their training.At least I've observed a couple Mantis guys I was acquainted with very obviously doing one of them and they each had only a couple years in SPM.I once had a former student from TC's Wm.C.C. Chen's line join my club and he did the same thing.He was not an advanced student. Some men's secrets are another man's basics.

    I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of us didn't know about this stuff when we started,or how necessary they could be in the practice of some of these systems.It sure wasn't in books or on instructional films decades ago.It's also a safe statement that many teachers in the modern era never got these teachings.(See what the Hsing I practitioner,Empty Hand said in this thread about that and my historical note regarding his statement).

    This is one reason practitioners of things like TC and HI spend all that time in form/single movement practice over years.It's a training method to continually practice,experiment with,and refine these mechanics after you've learned the mechanics.

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