Very informative discussion about what JKD is and isn't

What martial art do you study? Becuase all I've heard from you is complaints about what someone else does. Do you have ANY background in JKD to support these ideas about what goes on in JKD classes?

Looking back over this thread Empress Akasha already defined the concepts of JKD quite clearly.

 

Guys, don't let this cat bog down an otherwise good thread.

Why hasn't he been banned yet anyways? All he does is start threads so he can immediately disagree with everyone else's oppinions.

 

Methinks that Kenny actually has no idea what he is talking about in regards to life. He should go and hide, study, and come back to us when he takes his tongue off the window.

Em

 

Can I ask a question about the Kali/JKD link? Why it exists, and what purpose it serves to help with JKD?

 

Why it exists: As the story goes, Guro Dan Inosanto knew that Bruce Lee didn't want JKD schools. At the same time, after Lee's death, Inosanto didn't want JKD to fizzle out. His solution (along with Richard Bustillo) was to open a school teaching Filipino martial arts, with a JKD class within the school. So there wasn't a JKD school, but JKD classes persisted.

As for what kali adds to JKD, that question is impossible to answer really. Since Guro Dan was there at JKD's inception, and played a continual and important part in its development, kali has been an influence from early days. And since, after Lee's death, Guro Dan became one of the most knowledgeable remaining proponents of JKD, his experiences and priorities began to play a bigger role in JKD's development.

It's kinda like asking what purpose one brother serves in the development of the other brother. They live in the same space and have done for ages. Influence is inevitable.


Stuart

 

Ok, that makes sense from a history point of view. I guess what I meant is that Jun Fan/JKD is an open hand style, whereas Kali/escrima are weapons arts, so I wondered how they compliment each other.

Ie if I want to study JKD, am I also going to have to learn stick fighting (something I currently have zero interest in).

 

Not necessarily. Kali is an inclusive style. It just generally starts with stickfighting. But that aside, I've seen a lot of concept schools (i.e., schools most closely aligned with Dan Inosanto's interpretation of JKD) that teach kali and JKD side by side. Other schools (sometimes referred to as "original JKD") don't embrace kali at all. In which case, you wouldn't need to worry about it.

But even if they did, in my experience, concept schools often break their classes out into different sections. So you might have a Jun Fan/JKD class, a Thai boxing class, a kali class, etc. So you've got the opportunity to see the commonalities, but wouldn't necessarily be required to study kali in order to study JKD. Regardless of what "camp" you go with.

But that's a question for any potential teacher. The last time I "interviewed" a JKD teacher (on behalf of a friend of mine who was interested in training there), I asked him how classes were broken out. He had a kickboxing class that included elements of muay thai, Western boxing, and Filipino empty hand (what they call panantukan in that camp). But what it didn't include was stickwork. That was reserved for a kali class.


Stuart

 

On "Is it or is it not JKD?", "What is JKD?" and etc ad nauseum, I still argue that it's a misunderstanding of context and language. It's (JKD) discussed as if it matters what "JKD" is/isn't- and I believe the real question is something like "What works in fighting/combat against an uncooperative 'opponent' in a non-controlled environment."

In theory, anything that is effective in context might be described as JKD. Lots of ideas have been found over the years that few "JKD instructors" don't quibble about much. Terms (jab/cross, straight/hook), tactics (broken rhythm, 5 ways...), economy of motion, etc. Tons of styles have exactly the same ideas and terms, so why is it important to call such "JKD"? As my instructor says, "__________- it's all the same as far as his face is concerned."

As for the JKD/Kali link, have asked my instructor this question specifically. He was with Guro Dan for 13 non-stop years, 5 as his primary substitute. He is also a Guro under Edgar Sulite, one of Dan's teachers. His answer was (paraphrasing):

"It just so happens that where the principles of JKD leave off, specific techniques and ideas in Kali etc show up." A good example of this is the use of tools (weapons). What I think he was getting at is that in terms of practicality (our main concern), Kali has a lot of those ideas built in already.

For instance, in Kali there's a kickboxing base, they teach similar means of "scoring", all ranges of combat, foul tactics, interception, much more. I just see it as a system that inherently has more ideas that are arguably "JKD" (in the way I described above) than a lot of others, so the marriage worked well. He didn't cite any other reason for the two being mentioned so often, so close together.

 

Cool. Thanks for that. I didn't realise Kali was anything more than a weapons fighting system. I guess I'll have to pop along to my nearest JKD school to check it all out.

 

Would add that much depends on who you go to as well. Some folks don't spar (empty hand or with tools). Some simply omit the empty hand stuff. Some omit dealing with different ranges of combat. Some simply do stuff that no human I know is ever going to get off in the chaos of an uncontrolled "opponent" in an uncontrolled environ. Some teach a lot of techniques and or dead patterns...

That said though, there's also plenty of folk that teach more of the principles I described. Inosanto obviously, Dog Brothers, many of the Lameco people that are left. Of course these "critiques" are not limited to any system or subsystem, just making sure that I'm putting caveat emptor out there.

 

Seconded. Though, since I started studying kali/eskrima in 1990, I've never seen a school that omitted empty hand entirely. I've seen schools that did a better job of addressing it than others though.

In either event, it's not just weapons.


Stuart

 

Tried to PM you Stuart (apologies to everyone else)- who've you trained with?

 

The PM didn't work? Odd.

I trained in Doce Pares Eskrima with the Patalinghug family in Maryland, Inosanto Kali (and other assorted JKD stuff) with Guro Pat Finley in Maryland, and now in Modern Arnis with Guro Roman Picardo in Virginia. That's my FMA background, anyway.

 

Grazie. Was just curious because you always have good stuff to add here and elsewhere- wanted to know where you hailed from. The PM indicated that you'd chosen to turn accepting them off, as well as emails. It may be that way because I'm using Firefox- have gotten that message from other folks too.

 

Weird. Yeah it must be because of Firefox. My PM box is open for business. The email thing I may have switched off though.

In any event, thanks very much. I appreciate that!


Stuart

 

Ahh... The endless question/discussion. I love this stuff. Jeet Kune Do is not a style, system, or new martial art. It is a concept, an idea, and a way of life. You are Jeet Kune Do, I am Jeet Kune Do... Everyone on this forum is Jeet Kune Do. That is what makes it so beautiful... Hybrid freestyle fighting. No forms, no shapes, no tradition.

Although I am against JKD schools I will not bash anyone who goes to one. But I do find it difficult not to argue when someone says "I'm a Jeet Kune Do fighter." But to each their own I guess. I would prefer they would call themselves a freestyle fighter or mixed martial artist but hey, who am I?

"Jeet Kune Do is just a name... Please don't fuss over it."

- Bruce Lee

 

Hmmm interesting. Please elaborate, why would you be "against" JKD schools?

Don't get me wrong I can kinda see your logic in this, but when you have a system that adheres to specific principles within a specific framework, with definable and tangeable physical characteristics, why term it under a generic banner?

 

your against jkd schools but your who post sounds a little like it's from one of his books...hhhmmmmmmmmmmmm?

and no everyone is'nt doing jkd or being jkd, there are things that are exclusively jkd and there is a base in which to expand on

 

no not everyone is doing jkd, but i think people confuse JKD and JunFan GungFu far to often.