Outstanding! That means that you are affected, in one form or another, by something you've read on an internet forum! The fact that you even read them means that now you're just a little bit more aware. Whether you choose to care or not is simply a matter of your willingness to step outside your comfort zone and accept that perhaps an alternative means to consume exists. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink." Here are some more fun facts! Since so many vocal meat lovers are visiting...I suppose I should start adding more fun vegetarian facts to spread the word. This is sort of like having a bunch of BJJ/MMA guys crash a Ninjutsu/Aikido thread...except that we've got all sorts of fun facts for those visiting!
Do I need to point out which side has the more convincing reasons? Whether you choose to act on them or not is your choice, but if you want to eat meat because you like it and don't give a flying fig for the arguments against at least have the courage to say so. Mitch
Thats exactly what I was saying. Courage? Whats your point? Also, you obviously seem disturbed and I would like to know why because that was not my cause. I remember seeing threads like this and I never see the point thats all.
I would never say that eating meat wont make you big but.. Ive known some mighty husky vegans..and some mighty skinny ones too. I think a vegetarian diet would be great with the exception of fish.. i love eating fish. <fish><
A long time ago I let vegetarian propaganda convince me to not eat meat. I was a veg for three years. I was flabby, pale, and had a nasty patch of acne on my chest for a long time (which I assume was from soy consumption). Now I eat a good diet including a whole bunch of meat and vegetables and I feel and look better than I ever have. Fact is I don't really care that you can produce a hundred billion pounds of whatever on five yards of dirt. Meat is good for you. Donuts are vegetarian but I'm sure they raise the risk of cancer/heart disease/heart attacks/diabetes/obesity quite a bit more than beef. I don't see any group of people specifically targeting donut companies with propaganda. I seriously doubt that 50% of "Average" American males die from a heart attack. Where the hell did that information come from? What is an "Average American Male"? I ask because I think the "Average American Male" is about 50% more likely to eat donuts than the "Vegetarian American Male" (whatever that means). And I think you can just do a quick search of this forum and T-Nation to find out my opinion on Soy.
I could never become a vegetarian as I enjoy meat too much, and frankly there isn't any reason to become a vegetarian (the only one I hear is poor conditions for livestock) and that one isn't valid for me. What do I care if livestock have poor living conditions? How about fish? Fish aren't raised and slaughtered on a farm, and they are much less intelligent than cows/chickens/pigs etc. So why don't you in the very least eat fish?
Let's talk about creatine. Only meat has an ample supply of creatine. But you can get it by supplementation. There is also the TCM view of meat as a warm food often neccessary for good health especially during cold seasons. My previous post was just my way of saying I don't buy the moral argument for vegetarianism. Honestly I do not see the problem to a vegetarian diet as long as health and physical performance is unaffected. The problem currently would be the cost of fresh vegetables and the availability of vegetarian products. Seriously why pay $3 for 4 Boca burgers when you can get a dozen quarterpound patties for the same price? That is part of what is preventing vegetarian diets from being more widespread.
It's not that, the so-called facts provided only hold up in a very limited reality, and like I said initially, 'reasons' for one or the other are only valid from a personal perspective. I'm a student of agricultural science, particularly interested in genetically modified crops, I'm merely interested in the potential commercial value from more deviant crop modifications, ergo I asked. Why would they even bother looking into it if nobody would be willing to eat it? I'm sure you folks are quite aware of a lot of the stigma that GM food unduly recieves.
WARNING! Vegetarians, do not click these links! Only people that "Don't Care" should bother. http://www.londonpunks.co.uk/meat.htm http://www.shameway.com/images/cowbehead.jpg http://www.jacobsm.com/ritueleslacht.jpg http://www.goveg.com/photos/cows/cow24.jpg http://www.defendingfarmanimals.org/downer_photos.htm Hmmm....yummy. Maybe someone will pass by and be influenced to make a positive change in their eating habits. On that note, lets have some more fun facts!
Am I supposed to be disgusted by those pictures? Seeing those doesn't make me not want to eat meat, if that is what you were aiming for. I'm not some little pansy who flinches at the sight of a headless and bloodied cow. Sorry
Its a slaughter house. They chop heads. How is that supposed to prove anything? The beheading is actually cleaner than I thought.
Might as well throw my thoughts in here. I eat meat. I've also lived near and worked on farms for a lot of my life, and know exactly what I'm eating. I buy organic as often as possible, and through a butcher. The farming methods pictured above are for low cost economy meat produced as cheaply as possible, and are at an extreme end of the range of farms. In my area at least, none of the farms or slaughterhouses I've seen are even close to those examples. I don't mind vegans, so long as they respect the views of others, nor to I mind vegetarians for reasons other than those of moral vegetarians. Having seen how farms work, I have little time for people who don't eat meat because they don't like the idea of animals being killed. When you eat eggs, the roosters have been killed as chicks because there is no financial reason for them to grow up, a farm only needs 1 rooster. The same goes for milk, bull calves are killed and made into low grade meat usually for animal consumption, since they are not beef cattle. These deaths are all a direct result of farming methods for dairy products. If you eat dairy, animals will have died in the process of it's manufacture.
Hmmm... funny, I'm admittedly a bit out of shape (2005 was not a good year because a 10 year old injury finally hit the breaking point and required surgery in January of this year) but I certainly wouldn't describe myself (or Satori) as "flabby" or "pale", no problems with acne, and soy works well for me. I even take a veggie multivitamin to make sure I get all those nifty nutrients I need. Looks like your experience was much different than mine.
This is why I keep posting things that seem to get meat eaters so incensed. While certainly within your rights, I hardly see how coming to a "Vegetarian" thread to proclaim your meat eating rights is warranted or even welcome. Within your rights: Yes Welcome, wanted, or even justified: Not really I do appreciate your comments, though, as you've actually been on a farm. You know what you're eating...and while it boggles my mind that you're unaffected by it, at least you aren't running around with the wool pulled over your eyes, loudly declaring, "I CAN'T SEE IT! IT DOESN'T EXIST!" Congratulations. You are officially not "...some little pansy who flinches at the sight of a headless and bloodied cow." Feel better? P.S. At 18, I didn't care either. Here are some much more intelligent/famous/accomplished people that were obviously "...little pans(ies) who flinch at the sight of a headless and bloodied cow." -Donald Trump -Martha Stewart (not exactly a rolemodel...but much richer than you) -Clint Eastwood (Now HERE is a gigantic flinching pansy...right?) -George Bernard Shaw -Albert Schweitzer -Immanuel Kant -Leo Tolstoy -Leonardo De Vinci (from all accounts of his life, though little can be proven) -Thomas Edison -Albert Einstein -Nicola Tesla -Bill Goldberg (another flinching mangina...right?) So many silly pansies...so little time. Look, people...you still haven't figured it out. If you haven't been swayed or convinced of anything I've been saying for the past 5 pages...then nothing ANYONE says will ever change your mind. Christ/Buddha/Ghandi/Oprah Winfrey could fall from the sky in front of you and loudly declare, "MEAT EATING IS WRONG!" ...and you still wouldn't care. I could personally quit my job and spend the next 10 years doing undercover investigation into the meat industry. 10 years from now, I could slap down a 9,000 page report full of hands on, documented, factual information about how much healthier/humane/economical a vegetarian diet is... ...and you still wouldn't care. The government could issue a statement on all packaged meat products stating, "BY BUYING THIS, YOU ARE SUPPORTING AN UNHEALTHY LIFESTYLE THAT PROMOTES ANIMAL CRUELTY AND DESTROYS OUR ECONOMY".... ...AND YOU STILL WOULDN'T CARE. No polite concessions...no "you may have a point there" comments...no grudgingly given "Alright...I understand that I should be a vegetarian for a number of reasons, but I just can't make the change right now." Nothing. But you know what? I understand this already. I knew from the first belligerent, snarky post that nothing I nor anyone else said would change your mind in the least. I get it. So why do I keep posting? Because someone might hit the "New Post" button, see a multi-page "Vegetarian" thread, and be inclined to check it out due to a vague interest in Vegetarianism. What they'll see is aggressive vegetarians posting gobs and gobs of facts, statistics, pictures, and personal reasons in support of a meat-free lifestyle against the criticism of the masses. They'll also see a couple of reasoned "Meat Eating" responses...but a horde of belligerent and ill-conceived responses that only really serve to strengthen the vegetarian standpoint. So please, keep posting. It has managed to keep this thread bumped for several days now. Of course, no Satori thread would be complete without more fun facts!
Thank you, I know I'm as within my rights to defend my dietary choices as you are to change a thread originally about the effects of changing to a vegetarian diet into your own personal anti-meat eating campaign. That's subjective to your own viewpoint, since you have already introduced a serious debate into what was originally a help topic, it's only fair to present another side to the arguement. Proclaiming this as a 'Vegetarian thread' doesn't mean opposing viewpoints are unwelcome, unwanted or unjustified in everyone's opinion. That comment makes me wonder how many farms you have visited yourself, or how many farmers you have talked to. Most livestock farmers I've met eat meat, whether or not they have a slaughterhouse. Those who it affects the most are usually those who have had most of their exposure through biased media like the stuff you posted earlier, and believe that a few extreme cases are the same for everyone in the industry.
Its not. Eating poorly falls within all lifestyles. You would do better to cut out all processed foods then to cut out meat. That is, off course, to say nothing on choosing to not eat meat. As one can be healthy without it.
