Vaccination status affecting martial arts relationships

Should also take into account there is SO much disinformation out there from multiple sources that, in some cases, I am not surprised there is some vaccine resistance out of fear based on the bogus information they found and chose to run with for various reasons

 

Except that in my opinion, much of the bad information is pretty blatant. This has been going on for a long time. At this point it really is not difficult to recognize the trustworthy sources. Those claiming fear based on confusion over sources of info, in my opinion that is just an excuse to double-down on a comfortable political opinion.

 

The irony is, I think, that "caution" is exactly what the culture war has been fighting over the definition of. Is caution worrying about the virus, or NOT worrying about the virus? I just think this sort of existential question breaks most people in half, mentally. No wonder they don't all make the best medical decisions for themselves, their family, and random people they might infect and kill.

A bunch of different "doomsday virus" movies love to use this cinematic trope: the ones who try, or do escape quarantine, often promoting the death of the rest of the world in the process. There was 12 Monkeys, Outbreak, The Stand, the Andromeda Strain.

100%, we should have seen this coming, and I'll argue the people who read books, sort of did.

 

Yeah, and closing in on 800,000 dead Americans, and several million dead world wide, at not yet two years in, kinda makes it obvious.

really, this is not difficult to understand.

 

I recently saw a bit of a debate where an anti-vax woman said that she was sick of people framing her personal decisions as selfish. A couple of minutes later she was asking why it was any of her concern if she gave COVID to a stranger in the supermarket.

I don't know what you can do about these kinds of contradictory mental gymnastics.

 

We'll, you'd hope.

There are a lot of people who, evidently, either do not want, or are unable to, discern the quality of information.

It's a failure of our education systems when bogus stats and pictures knocked up in MS Paint or unqualified podcasting numbskulls are given equal weight to peer-reviewed studies.

What I find particularly frustrating is that all these conspiracies are masking real reasons to be angry at corporate influence on the response to the pandemic.

Bill Gates is a villain in this, but not because he is doing everything in his power to vaccinate the world, but the very opposite. Through his foundation he scuppered the open source COVID research planned by the WHO, and applied pressure to Oxford to license their vaccine rather than their original plan to have free licensing, which would have enabled developing nations to produce it themselves, or buy cheaper alternatives from generic manufacturers. His ideological drive to protect corporate intellectual property rights has cost untold lives.

All this is lost in the noise of baseless conspiracy theories.

 

It's not a simple case of having no licensing means every has access to it, currently Oxford are overall doing it for cost price, and charging the developed world more to subsidize the developing world.

The licence means there's a QA standard applied, you could do this in another way, but it is super important to have a QA standard, otherwise people could get sick, fake vaccines could occur (already a problem), etc etc.

(Ps I'm no fan of Bill gates)

 

Experience with polio and AIDS would suggest otherwise.

Home - People's Vaccine

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wi...oses-under-bill-gates-vaccine-colonialism/amp

 

Interestingly the HIV treatments and vaccines made as Patent free generics in third world countries, arnt allowed to be used in other countries, because their QA isn't always up to scratch. (And other legal/money reasons)

The time to use that system is when the supply of vaccines from licenced companies are insufficient.
(Especially as Oxford are supplying it at less then cost price)

The problem is less the supply, (although it is that too) and more rich countries hording doses. (There's enough doses for everyone world wide, but their not getting to the places that are needed.)

Also re QA if the patent free vaccines are 5% less effective (and vaccines are tricky to make so that's a beliveable amount) that could add up to hundreds of thousands of deaths extra.

It all depends on the capacity of the system, and how well to co Vax system works, currently it's working poorly so licence free could be a better system overall. But it's not a black and white decision.

(Personally I think the WHO should pay for the liscencing conditions to be met (I.e. it's made properly with no shortcuts), the total amount should be capped, and all countries should contribute according to their GDP for X amount of years, and each country could issue a bond to pay for it)

Of course that's because we all work within a capitalist system,

Perhaps there's a better option to be looked at,

Edit good article:

What it will take to vaccinate the world against COVID-19

 

I think the idea that India or South Africa aren't capable of producing vaccines to the same standard as Europe or North America is a bit far-fetched.

I'm with Medicines San Frontieres, Amnesty International, et al on this one: MSF Actions on Covid-19 Pandemic | MSF Access Campaign

 

The conservative fear machine is rather ingenious.

After making people afraid of gay people, communists, black people, civil rights, voting rights, immigrants, Muslims etc. etc., they have now pulled off making people afraid of being made afraid. The globalists are trying to make you afraid to take your freedom.

 

Citation needed please, I can't find any info on this.

 

India makes a big lot of the vaccines the UK uses, but the premises that are producing them are licensed and inspected regularly, and the QA is top notch.

Serum Institute Of India. News

I'm definitely not saying other countries can't make good vaccines, I'm saying it's important for all vaccines made, to be made correctly, and the liscencing system is one way of doing this, other ways could also work, but its not something you can just trust people to do properly.

The serum institute is actually doing pretty well so far.
Serum Institute Of India. Press Release - 26 November 2021

Think of it like a driving license, it's a certification of something being to the required standard. it means the production line and all ingredients and processes have been overseen and are exactly the same as what is needed.

Here's a good example: of why QA is important.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro....aminated-at-scandal-hit-factory-14373004/amp/

 

Something else I started to notice, in a discussion on another site. Blaming, and finger pointing. Sometimes civil, sometimes downright insulting. Start blaming, finger pointing and name calling (no name calling going on here, that is not applicable to this discussion) and that immediately puts someone on the defensive. Also there are political opinions on both sides of this. I get the feeling in a lot of these discussions folks are approaching this from the same view, I'm right and you're wrong and there is no discussion.

Don't get me wrong, I do think folks should get vaccinated, I just think many are going about this wrong trying to achieve this. Talking good, trying to get the correct information out there good, avoiding the politics and the politicization of this very good. Not playing the blame game also good. Avoiding an increase in the division that is increasing by the day in the USA great.

 

You're arguing against unlicensed pharmaceutical manufacturing. That's not what I'm arguing for. I'm arguing for the same things Medicines San Frontieres, Amnesty International, and initially the WHO were in favour of: https://www.csis.org/analysis/compulsory-licensing-cure-distributing-cure

 

Nope your over simplifying the subject, the companies use the patient to control who sets up and gets it licensed, and provides them all the help, vaccine manufacturer is very hard to do, no patent = no technical help = mistakes happening.

I would be in favour of a different method too, but it ain't gonna happen, (especially not with bill gates involved, who again I am no fan of his approach) Even the Cubans have patented their vaccine.

 

What do you think voluntary and compulsory licensing is?

 

A potential solution if done properly, but it hasn't been used, and now won't be as we're already too far gone.

 

I agree with you, but I have to be honest, it gets to be a bit exasperating when we keep going over it again and again. There are very highly trusted experts in the field who are giving good advice. And there are people who are NOT experts in the field who are giving very bad advice. Especially after all this time and all these dead people, I just cannot fathom why people choose to go with the non-experts.

granted, there are a small number of credentialed people who are also giving bad advice. Unfortunately some of them are even being put into positions of power and influence, like the fellow recently appointed to the position of surgeon general (or whatever his title is there) in the State of Florida. These people are no different from the doctors hired by Phillip Morris to put out a false narrative that smoking is not harmful. The tobacco companies knew they were wrong but they were desperately trying to save their profits and they were willing to lie about it and willing to hire people to lie about it in spite of the fact that it was killing people. Unfortunately there are those in the medical field who are dishonest enough to use their credentials to push a false narrative for a fat paycheck and power. But in this case, the weird thing is that they are actually hurting and killing their own constituents in the process because Covid does not recognize political boundaries. The regular folks embrace this and refuse to see it for what it is. Utterly baffling. I say it again: this is not difficult to understand. You do not need a medical degree to understand this, and to understand how infection works and how viruses continue to mutate and how dangerous that can be and what that can mean down the road.

but by far, those dishonest doctors are in the minority and do not represent the mainstream medical science on this issue. It is really easy to get accurate information, so at some point I can’t help but feel like people choose to believe a false narrative because it is in alignment with their politics. I can’t figure out any other answer to this, and it seems to be heavily consistent in that those who tend to believe these false narratives are overwhelmingly of a certain political persuasion, and the false narratives are being pushed by politicians and talking heads who are also of that political persuasion.

It is incredibly frustrating to me because this absolutely should have nothing to do with politics. This should be about nothing but keeping ourselves and each other safe and healthy. There has always been a political fringe that has embraced nutty conspiracy theories, but in the past they were always a very small group and were not representative of the mainstream of any political party. But now these conspiracy theories are becoming mainstream in one of our political parties. It is baffling to me.