Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by Satori81, Dec 26, 2004.

  1. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    Yeah, it's a cliche now, but the teacher is more important than the style.

    have you tried asking over at Martial Talk? Lots of Cali Kenpo people over there...
  2. flyingleopard

    flyingleopard New Member

    The best way to find the school you want is to go to google and type in martial arts in whatever city.. hope that helps.
  3. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    Hi guys, you can't take 'techniques' that seriously, not only in Shaolin Kempo but any Kenpo/Kempo system. They are not mean't to be. What I mean is don't take them 'verbatim', you know, move for move, word for word, etched in stone, 'the bible', the 'holy grail', lol. Does #4 combination work? Yes, absolutely. The concept, the idea, it works. At first glance the following may not appear to be #4 but scrape beneath the surface, use your insight, and #4 combination will be staring right back at you.

    Here goes: Your opponent, let's say, grabs you with one hand (lapel grab), cocks his other hand and tells you he's going to knock you head off. You stick your fingers in his eyes, jab or rake and knee or kick him in the groin. He either falls or you simply throw him down to the ground. You attempt to step away and check him out. Why? because if you down someone and feel the encounter is over you should never stand over him to check it out or evaluate of follow up. A martial artsit was stabbed and killed in New York in a similiar scenerio. In a fictional scene from the movie 'Dirty Harry', but good example, Andy Robinson stands over a fallen Clint Eastwood. Eastwood grabs a stilletto that was taped to his ankle and stabs him in the thigh. So cross over and cover from a safe distance. However, in this case, you recover from the knee or as in #4 the kick and as you keep your eyes on your attacker he appears to be getting ready to get up and pursue you. At this point you abort the cross over & cover and proceed to either punch his lights out from a UFC type mount position or simply stomp him. Again, it's the concept of #4, not neccessarily the technique move for move.

    #4 does not dictate that the attacker falls from your kick all the time, it just gives a scenerio, a possiblity of the outcome of kicking him and the kick can go anywhere and you're not restricted to a roundhouse. The concept being should he go down then you may need to follow up and if you do here's another possiblity on how to handle it. Obviously if he doesn't go down you continue your onslaught until he is neutralized. Trivia: #4 combination was the favorite of Professor Walter L.N. Godin (although performed to his perspective, same idea though), Chuck 'The Iceman' Liddel-UFC and John 'The Train' Hackleman-'The Pit' are of the Godin lineage through Professor Martin Buell, a Godin black belt. Godin assisted Gm. Sonny Gascon during the inception Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu.

    You don't have to believe me but I never b.s. anyone so here goes. #4 combination was used by a student of Shaolin Kempo back around maybe '76 or '77. It was recorded in a Villari newsletter (The Defender, KenpoJoe Rebelo may still have a copy of it) that came out to his New England schools (and Canada) periodically. The article was confirmed by local newspapers. Villari's organization back then was called United Studios of Self Defense, the name that Materra/Demasco use now. The kid worked in a liquor store and some bozo went to hold it up and attempted to hit him off the head with a bottle of whiskey. The kid used #4, to what extent I don't recall but it was #4. Police came and the perpetrator was arrested. This was at the time I was just getting on the police force. I checked it out and it was all quite true. Techniques are simple vehicles to drive home ideas or concepts while teaching and coordinating the principles of movement and balance but not to be taken so literally.

    Now, the Shaolin in Shaolin Kempo. Don't blame Villari for that one. When Mitose first came to Hawaii, he called his art Shorinji Kempo, we all know Shorinji is the Japanese translation for Shaolin. Let's not also forget Doshin So's 'Shorinji' Kempo (1947). This is all fact. Check it out. Professor Chow, for a time, called his art Shaolin Kempo and Chinese Kempo. SGM. Ralp Castro studied with Chow and made his shodan with Ed Parker. When he started his own thing Professor Chow suggested he call his art Shaolin Kenpo. Again, this can be all verified. Villari's art after he left cerio was called Chinese KeNpo Karate. Cerio even used this in the early years. later, in the later 70's?, Villari changed the name to Shaolin Kenpo and in 1981 changed the N to an M. This was the same year Chow changed the n from the m. When Villari came out with his first book in the 80's he called the art American Shaolin Kempo. Ed Parker published a book in 1963 called the Secrets of Chinese Karate, 'Chinese' Karate??? Gm. Victor 'Sonny' Gascon a Kajukenbo black belt under Sifu John Leoning (who played Master Te in the first Kung Fu pilot and television series) and Adriano Emperado founder Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu and refers to it as the Hawain Shaolin Kempo method. This was the system gascon taught S. George Pesare and Pesare taught Nick Cerio and Cerio taught Fred Villari. So, there's where the name 'Shaolin' comes into play when describing Kempo.

    "N" or 'M' really does not define any characteristics to the various systems today. Kenpo is pronounced Kempo. The Japanese will tell you that in Japan kenpo like kendo is usually used to reference a sword art and the 'm' is more commonly used. John Bishop told me this and got the information from his Mom who is Japanese. I also received this info from two different martial artists living in Japan and have there e-mails in my files for documentation, one is Tony Kehoe. Respectfully, Joe Shuras
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2005
  4. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    This is from the website of SGM. Ralph Castro:

    FAQ 3: Is Shaolin Kenpo the same as kempo, kenpo, kempo karate, Shaolin Kempo Karate, or American Kenpo Karate?

    A: Some generic terms broadly identify a wide range of historically-related martial arts. Such terms include kempo and kenpo. On the other hand, Shaolin Kenpo, American Kenpo Karate, and Shaolin Kempo Karate are three of the many examples of specific, distinctive, and governed systems of martial arts.

    "Shaolin Kenpo" is the name of the art developed by Great Grandmaster Ralph Castro (also called Shaolin Kenpo Karate, and Ralph Castro's Shaolin Kenpo). On the other hand, "Shaolin Kempo Karate" was developed by Grand Master Fred Villari, while "American Kenpo Karate" was developed by the late Grand Master Ed Parker. Both Shaolin Kenpo and Shaolin Kempo Karate incorporated the name 'Shaolin' to acknowledge their inclusion of martial arts techniques whose origin was the Shaolin Temple in China.

    All three arts have distinguished founders and lineages. As to lineage, Ralph Castro was a student of the late Great Grandmaster William Kwai Sun Chow. (Also known as 'Professor' Chow, he was the first Great Grandmaster of Shaolin Kenpo). Ed Parker was an earlier student of Professor Chow. We understand Fred Villari was a student of Nick Cerio, who was a student of George Pesare, who was a student of Sonny Gascon, who was a student of Adriano Emperado [Kajukenbo], who was also an early student of Professor Chow.

    [ The following names are trademark property of Ralph Castro: "Shaolin Kenpo", "Ralph Castro's Shaolin Kenpo", "Shaolin Kenpo Karate", "International Shaolin Kenpo Association". In addition, the 'Shaolin Kenpo (fist)' design, the 'tiger' design, the 'dragon' design (examples of images can be found at, and the 'Ralph Castro's Shaolin Kenpo (with fist)' design, (example of image can be found at are trademark property of Ralph Castro. - All Rights Reserved. ]

    An event that confuses many today, some years ago a few martial artists broke away from the (Villari) Shaolin Kempo Karate organization. Later, some of their students misspelled the name of the (Villari) art their teachers once studied -- They misspelled it with an 'n' rather than 'm', such as Shaolin 'Kenpo' Karate, or sometimes even shortened it further to Shaolin 'Kenpo'.

    Today, a few still innocently propagate this same unfortunate spelling error that was first made by their seniors. They give the impression, by misspelling the name this way, that they practice the art of (Ralph Castro's) Shaolin Kenpo. In fact, they have no connection to Shaolin Kenpo and are not from the lineage of Great Grandmaster Castro. Rather, they use the name of his art without permission. They should investigate their history, and correct their error out of respect for their lineage.

    True for many martial arts styles, occasional name and style confusions (and resulting rank confusions) might ordinarily make it difficult to determine who ARE the teachers and practitioners of the art of Shaolin Kenpo. However, the International Shaolin Kenpo Association is responsible for governing Shaolin Kenpo. It has the authority to decide the status of claims about any individual's rank in Shaolin Kenpo, and the status or sanction of any school.

    An irritation more often found in the larger martial arts systems is, a small number of practitioners of generic or mixed kenpo/kempo techniques (and a few, interestingly, had teachers in Great Grandmaster Ralph Castro's extensive lineage) knowingly make false claims about earning a high rank in Shaolin Kenpo. They damage Shaolin Kenpo and they dishonor themselves and their teachers. They degrade their own current organization or school with their false claims.

    This Association clearly identifies the Shaolin Kenpo black belts, the instructors, and the Shaolin Kenpo schools. Historically, through recognition within the Shaolin Kenpo ranks, and more recently, through public recognition in these pages of, the Association is quick to honor valid achievements. ....End

    I would also like to point out that the art Tang Soo Do follows the same tradition of acknowledging China as it's roots. Tang Soo Do is obviously a 'Korean' art and was heavily influenced by the Japanese art of Shotokan yet the name reflects China as it's art's origin and translated means 'China Hand Way'. Look at the names Okinawan Kempo/Kenpo and American Kenpo. Kenpo/Kempo the Japanese translation of Shaolin Chu'an fa yet in Okinawa the style name Okinawan Kenpo or Kempo is used and 'American' is used to described Parker's Kenpo. There is no reason for Shaolin Kempo or Shaolin Kenpo to take any criticism over this. The term Shaolin is proper to describe these arts. Note: I mentiond above the Villari organization changed the 'n' to an 'm' in 1981 about the same time Professor Chow did. In checking my notes I believe the Villari group made the change in 1980. As far as the reason why please refer to my article above from the Castro website. Villari made the change to go back to show the system's 'shaolin' roots and out of respect to the Castro organization changed the 'N' to the 'M' so there would be no confusion between the two systems. Remember too that Villari originally called the system what Professor Nick Cerio had called it: 'Chinese' Kenpo Karate. Villari always recognized China as it's origins. Gm. Victor 'Sonny' Gascon from which Villari's art came from called it Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu-the Hawaiian 'Shaolin' Kempo Method. Respectfully, Prof. Joe Shuras
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2005
  5. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    More words of wisdom from Prof. Shuras :)

    Speaking of Tang Soo Do, Prof. Shuras, I found a video clip of their first form, but I cannot now remember the name of it. I practice a variation of Shaolin Kempo developed by Prof. Geary based on USSD and NCK and otehr stuff too, I dno't know what. What I discovered as I watched this TSD clip as that we use the IDENTICAL form under the name "Pinan 1".

    Our P1 is a bit different than the USSD P1. The layout, the arrangements of attackers, and the order you move between them is the same, but the blocks and punches are different.

    Have you seen the TSD form, and do you know where they picked it up from? I am wondering if Prof. Geary used the TSD form, or if he learned it that way from somewhere else... perhaps even NCK? I will try to find that clip if it helps...

  6. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    Thank you, David. Yes, Tang Soo Do utilizes modified Shotokan forms. Back in the 80's, an excellent Tang Soo Do black belt had moved to my area and decided to study at my school. Good guy, too. I let him wear his black belt at my school as he learned our Kempo curriculum for I felt he was very deserving of it. When he had our curriculum down for black I put him through all his Kempo and awarded him his shodan. He stayed with us until he got transferred out of state.

    Give me a little more information on that form. Remember, the Japanese occupied Korea until 1945 and taught Shotokan, hense, the adaptation of their forms in Tang Soo Do (modified of course) The Pinan 1 of Shaolin Kempo and Nick Cerio's Kenpo is actually Taikyoku 1 (first cause form) created by Gigo Funakoshi (Gichen's son). He also created Takiyoku nidan and sandan. There are three more Taikyoku's involving kicks but they were created by the leading Shotokan man in France (his name currently alludes me) but are rarely seen. Cerio also created Shaolin Kempo's #2 Pinan which was inspired by the three Taikyoku series and his training with Professor Chow. In Nick Cerio's Kenpo this form is called Pinan #3. This may be the one your thinking of. It has the same embusen as Pinan #1 and as you stated, has different hand strikes and additional blocks. Villari's is very, very close to Cerio's. Cerio does favor 'direct' pivots in footwork rather than 'indirect'. "Joe"
  7. wanderingdaoist

    wanderingdaoist New Member

    Better yet, don't ever call it shaolin, since 'shaolin' is just a mcdojo name even in china. the shaolin temple is not the powerhouse it used to be.. as a matter of fact, it's mostly BS these days...

    Quan fa is the best name, but since that's what kenpo means anyways, don't need to be redundant.
  8. Infrazael

    Infrazael Banned Banned

    There idea of "5 Animal Training" is absolutely ridiculous and entertaining. . . .

    ESPECIALLY the Snake. I love their Dim Mak strikes and other "deadly techniques" lol.
  9. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    wanderingdaoist, I have to agree on the Shaolin Temple certifications going on. I have checked that out in my past research and I couldn't agree more. You are right. (I do have a friend who went and totally enjoyed it BUT he didn't go to get a piece of paper to make himself a 'Shaolin monk' to legitimize his rank in the system he is teaching for he is quite comfortable with his training background and lineage.) However, it's really no reason to 'stricken' the term 'shaolin' from systems that have used it for many decades because if the 'mcdojo' reason is the case then why not stricken the names Kenpo/Kempo and countless names of other arts of all origins where many have gone the business route. Again, it was William Chow who first used 'Shaolin' over half a century ago and he certainly didn't use it for commerical reasons but for his heritage, being half Chinese coupled with his affinity to Shaolin Kung Fu.

    Mcdojo? Funny term. Funny in the sense that to different people it means different things. For instance. I teach 'part time' and I've had a very successful school for almost 30 years. I know others, some friends of mine, that operate full time. Now, someone could make the statement that the full time school owners are 'mcdojos', why? Simple. I don't have to compromise my teaching and ranking methods to make money to put food on the table, pay a home mortgage, car payments, put kids through school or simply endulge in some of life's luxuries because my wife and I have full time professions. Now, there's the guy who teaches at the YMCA for 'nada' or in his basement or garage for nada, he could say because I teach for tuition payments, in other words, 'money' that I am classified as a commerical school and am therefore a 'Mcdojo' in their perspective!

    I think you will find that the majority of the schools run today, the successful ones that is, in other words schools that have been in existence for decades can be classified as mcdojos because no matter how you cut it money is being exchanged for a service and money is the root.....well, you know the cliche and people as we have seen and not just Americans either, will and have cut corners for the almighty dollar! I don't care if it's a chain of 100 schools or one guy teaching in a gym somewhere, people are people.

    It is very rare these days actually almost non-existent to have the vicious workouts and tough testing paramenters of the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and even in some cases the 80's. Don't think so? Think lawyers and liability. When I started training in '73 it would not even enter one's mind to sue a school or instructor. Back then with the martial arts boom, instructors took 'pride' in students quiting their classes. They felt it showed how tough their training methods were and also because of the overflow of students back then (no one was ever turned away) so it helped keep class size in reason because if they got too big students would quit anyway for lack of attention. At my school, we are still very strict in training and promotions, especially when you start approaching intermediate ranks and our brown and black belt tests are 'ORDEALS' but there is no doubt this hurts us financially and sends some students flocking to other schools BUT I can afford this because it's not my primary source of income. However, do I teach as rough and tumble as I did when I first started? NO! Why? The law won't let me, civil law that is! LIABILITY! Who the heck can afford to get hit with foolish law suits everytime you turn around. This is what also hurts the martial arts and is adding to the amount of, pardon the expression, lol, mcdojos!! Good instructors who have their hearts in the right place still have to make concessions to the liability factor. It's unfortunate but it's simply the world we live in today. Respectfully, Prof. Joe Shuras (edited for spelling)
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2005
  10. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    I also wanted to respond to the comments on 'five animal training' and 'Dim Mark'. I may be wrong on this but I have to agree, it has always struck me funny when I hear someone say they have learned this and that 'animal technique' in their Kenpo/Kempo training and they have to have so many 'animal techniques' for rank. Please don't get me wrong, I understand the place for animals in Kung Fu and Kempo training, how they simply are used to represent different methods that humans use in movement. They are used a metaphors. For example, a tiger attacks direct, say like a Shotokan student fights, leopard strikes in rapid fire w/ angulation, okay, a good speed combination, used in western boxing for ages, a crane and balance? well isn't fighting all about the balance/unbalance principle? The snake? Pinpoint accuracy in striking vital areas/target aquisition. The mythical dragon represents nice flow and fighting spirit, whiplike movements. Okay, I'm with it when taught like that and have no problem calling a claw a tiger claw or a secondary knuckle strike to the throat leopard's paw but when I see someone totally fighting like an animal in those kung fu movies, well, to agree with Infrazael, 'ridicluous thought of the day',lol. Hey, how about when a guy gets in some 'snake posture' and starts 'hissing', LOL.

    Dim mark? even more ridiculous. Did anyone see Dillman when those scientists challenged his 'knockout touch' on the Discovery channel? Bad............. Let me also say this. Believe me, if that stuff worked there would be a special mandatory program to train police officers and I've been on the job since 1977 and trust me, there isn't. With all the b.s. that cops have to go through in the use of force and liability, if Dillman's stuff worked, all us cops would be using it. Let's bring it up a notch to the 'death touch', wouldn't the military be interested in Dim Mark? I know, the CIA has been using it for years, lol.

    The system I train in has the 'Poison Hand' strikes but before you scoff at this realize our poison hand is logical and practical. It's just a name for pinpoint striking of vital areas, like a thumb to the eye is referred to as a 'poison thumb' strike. No big thing. There's no mysticism or ancient Chinese secrets, it's just jabbing a guy in the eye with your thumb having the training and ability to hit a small target in the dynamic situation of a real fight. Some just get too carried away with this stuff or maybe they are just too naive and actually believe it. I studied a traditional kung fu style (Tam Tui Praying Mantis) at one time and one form, the Shaolin Leopard form had everything you did holding your hands in the leopard paw formation, everything, even blocking. The rest of the forms were fine, it was this one 'borrowed' Shaolin style form. Imho, I just can't see that.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2005
  11. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    here is a clip of the Tang Soo Do version. This site calls it "Taka Hyung 1"

    In our version of the second form, the strikes for attacker 1&2 go to the groin, the 3 strikes on attacker 3 are double-strikes, a punch to solar plexus that roll downward into a hammer to the groin. Attacker 4&5 get inverted punches to the philtrum, 3 strikes to attacker 6 have 2 overhead blocks, then 2 strikes, attacker 7 & 8 get a low block, high block, then a double-strike to the SP and philtrum.
  12. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    Yes David, just as I thought. Tang Soo Do took the Shotokan forms modified them somewhat and gave them Korean names. Taka Hyung 1 in Korean is Taikyoku Shodan in Japanese. Your #2 Pinan was first developed by Professor Nick Cerio back in the 60's shortly after he left SGM. S. George Pesare. This is the #2 Pinan he taught SGM. Fred Villari. However, Cerio modified it somewhat after Villari left him, so there are a few differences. Prof. Cerio created the form from studying the Taikyoku series (shodan, nidan & sandan) from one of Mas Oyama's books. Oyama taught a blend based on Shotokan Karate but was also influenced by GoJu ryu, Sil Lum Pai Kung Fu which he referred to as Chinese Kenpo and Kodokan Judo. Oyama was Korean. He called his style Kyokushin Karate (Great Ultimate Truth). Cerio created a 'hybrid' form from this Taikyoku series modifying it drastically with his own personal techniques or perpective, keeping the floor pattern (embusen) the same. He also did this with Shaolin Kempo's Pinan 1 but kept it essentially the same as Taikyoku Shodan and Pinans 3, 4 & 5-all versions of Oyama's Kyokushin. The main differences in Cerio's Pinan #1 and SKK's Pinan #1 is Cerio used direct pivots and cross draws and Villari uses indirect pivots and no cross draws. Now, some of the SKK schools that have gone off on their own have adopted some of Cerio's changes.

    When Prof. Cerio founded Nick Cerio's Kenpo (1974) he had further modified the forms that were in his original, what he called back then, 'Chinese Kenpo Karate. Cerio changed the numbers and names for some of these originals that are still used in SKK. Your #2 Pinan is now #3 Pinan in NCK. #1 Pinan is #1 Pinan in both arts but #2 Pinan in NCK was a new creation of Cerio's for NCK. The first 8 moves after the opening were inspired by Shotokan's Heian #1 (which is Okinawan's Pinan Shodan) then he alters it drastically but for the better-great stuff! Your #3 & 4 Pinan (SKK) is Cat Form #1 and Cat Form #2 in NCK, both altered. He didn't use SKK's #5 Pinan. When I asked him why he told me it just didn't fit into his system. Hope this helps to clear some things up. I know there is much misinformation floating around and if I wasn't sure of something I would admit it but I am positive on the info. in this post. It came directly from Prof. Cerio to myself back some 16 years ago and it has all checked out over the years. Prof. Joe

    PS: I do not wish to give the impression that Prof. Cerio learned forms from just a book, nothing could be further from the truth! However, it was the book which stirred and inspired his interest into adding some but not all the forms to his systems both NCK and it's forerunner of which became known as Shaolin Kempo Karate. We are only talkng about 4 forms in NCK which has 20 empty hand forms and 5 forms in SKK. Prof. Cerio studied and went over these forms live under several different traditional masters, two who come to mind are Tadashi Yamashita and Fumio Demoura.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2005
  13. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Prof. Shuras,

    How close are the #1-5 kata in Shaolin Kempo to what GM Gascon taught? I know that you told me that they originated with him, but I wonder if they are modified from the originals.
  14. KempoJer

    KempoJer Valued Member

    Maybe you should do a little more research on your founder. There is a thread about him on, GM Gascon's website. It goes into detail on how your founder did several self-promotions himself ( I noticed on a couple other posts on this site that you knocked GM Villari for doing the same), and it also states that how GM Gascon stripped your founder of his rank that was given to him under false pretenses, there was something shady with his rank from Cerio, and his timeline didn't line up. I just wanted to mention this because you seem to judge people like GM Villari and GM DeMasco, and use the "McDojo" label quit often. All of the top Masters in Kempo/Kenpo know who's who in their world, and you should listen to everybody and not just what your founder and his desciples feed you. We all can be blinded and brainwashed by our teachers, it is too easy to have them on a pedestal and see them as a "god", so to speak. I ask you this, "What is worse, being a student at a McDojo, or being an arogant, ego-maniac clone ? It IS possible to be an awesome martial artist AND humble.
  15. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    I'm not really interested in starting up the KGS vs Geary argument again, if you want to read all teh exciting verbal battles use the search, there are multiple threads here already about it. besides, you are the one who needs mroe research, your information is out of date. if you go to the KGS link above this is what it says about Christopher Geary:

    In the last month I have done PLENTY of research into everyone involved, and NONE of them need to be throwing stones from their glass houses.

    So if Rash and Geary are ready to stop the feud who are you to stir it up again.

    But let me address some of the stuff you say:

    You say Prof. Geary did self-promotions. This is not true. His promotions came from Nick Cerio, Lou Angel, Sony Gascon, and Jamie Abregana.

    False pretenses? Prof. Geary sent the KGS a tape for them to evaluate, to see if they wanted to rank him. They ranked him without watching the tape. What false pretenses? Eventually he decided he didn't want to be part of the KGS anymore, resigned, posted his account of why he quit, and the feud was on. No hidden agenda. Let me ask you this: why would they rank him without even seeing the tape? What was THEIR agenda?

    My "judging" of the founders of the USSD in this thread is no more than me repeating what is simply common knowledge. I use "MCDojo" often? I disagree...

    Nice first post Kempojer, welcome to MAP...

  16. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Some facts for KempoJer.
    Mr. Geary is not on Professor Cerio's list of Black Belts.
    Mr. Geary was demoted by Professor Cerio.
    Mr. Geary lied to Professor Cerio.
    Mr. Geary does not have Shodan rank from Professor Cerio.

    That is the truth about Mr. Geary's first Shodan ranking.

    At least Master Mattera achieved his Shodan ranking legitimately.
  17. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    Which only affirms what I said... Prof. Geary has never self-promoted.

    He will be happy to know that you are still thinking of him, Joe :)
  18. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Oh yes, I am most certainley still thinking of Mr. Geary.
    Well, I see it like this...
    Mr. Geary has no Shodan rank...
    So how can he wear a Black Belt?
  19. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    Very close. I learned the originals from SGM. George Pesare and he stated he did not change them. I totally believe him because I also saw two films, one from Mr. Pesare and one Prof. Cerio showed me. Both were vintage 60's and contained kata. Cerio's may have been late 50's and also showed Mr. Pesare preforming kata. The one Prof. Cerio showed me was filmed in Bill Ryusaki's backyard. The katas were the same as SGM. Pesare teaches today plus I also studied from him in 1978, he kept the forms the same. E-mail me at , I'd rather correspond there. I just came on here looking for a particular post to answer JoeV. told me about and saw your post. Joe S.
  20. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    David copied and posted: Executive Board Message
    This article has been taken down. The Executive Board is reviewing Prof. Rash's request to end this thread. There will be more information regarding this soon. Thank you all for your support.

    - KGS BBS Executive Board

    I will post this and then I won't be available to answer anything regarding CNG for the time being.

    David stated: So if Rash and Geary are ready to stop the feud who are you to stir it up again.

    Please do not jump to any conclusions as to what Prof. Rash, GGM. Gascon and the Executive Board of the KGS BBS are ready to do. The message was taken down in good faith because Mr. Geary did initially extend the olive branch and made the first move by deleting his guestbook which was used as a tool in perpetuating this 'disagreement' and then sending an e-mail to Mr. Rash requesting an agreement to remove Chapter 14 from his autobiography. No matter who it is, if peace is offered, we will entertain the idea and keep an open mind, this is the way of the martial arts in which we teach our students-"Offer peace first but if the soul is threatened, let the soul become the warrior". We then went into 'executive session' to discuss the matter and in the interim, another e-mail was received by Prof. Rash from Mr. Geary.

    We continued into executive session and have reached an answer to Mr. Geary's requests. Now, please understand what I'm about to say and let's call a truce on anymore discussion here for the time being. There is a reason I am speaking for Prof. Rash right now. He was preparing to address the situation BUT he had an unexpected family emergency which obviously takes precedence over this. My prayers are with him and his family. As soon as it is possible, he will get back to the situation at hand. Thank you for your understanding. Prof. Joe Shuras, Mass. State president of the KGS BBS

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