Using Breakfalls in the Street

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Punchy, Jan 6, 2005.

  1. gojuman

    gojuman Valued Member

    Breakfalls are intended to... guess what? Break your fall. If you learn how to do a breakfall in judo or tkd, or jiu jitsu or karate or professional wrestling for that matter you will be less likely to hurt your self if you should fall, be thrown, trip etc. no matter where you are.
    Breakfall technique teaches how to avoid landing on your head or elbow or wrist,etc.
    I read this stupid line of questioning like "will what I learn in the dojo be good in the street" all the time on this forum. Unless your teacher is telling you that landing on your head is best a breakfall will work no matter where you do it.
    Take the time to learn. Resist the temptation to leave the dojo after a class or two and say "this will never work". If you leave after only a class or two you are going to be self professizing your failure. Any martial art takes a great deal of time and energy to really understand and to help you when you need it most.
     
  2. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    I was discussing this with my husband last night, and he said he'd also used a rolling breakfall once when he came off his motorbike going too fast round a roundabout. He got away with just a bruised shoulder, which is pretty good.

    Don't wish to harp on, but I think that being able to break your fall is one of the most useful, practical skills you can get out of a martial art and is worth working at more than anything else, even though it's not as flashy as other stuff.
     
  3. Punchy

    Punchy Purely Practical

    I'm not questioning wjether it is useful to be able to breakfall. Clearly it has great value, especially in self defence. I am asking about the best method fot the street (or bus or tain etc).

    From the posts I would say that there are different methods, some using the feet more than others. Interesting - that is what I am getting at. Maybe some variations are better than others. Maybe I am not doing it right either (being a beginner at grappling) so I need to discuss with my instructor as well.

    Thank you for the helpful feedback.
     
  4. Colin Linz

    Colin Linz Valued Member

    Oh well, that’s easy. My version is the best. :rolleyes:
     
  5. madfrank

    madfrank Valued Member

    ?

    theres the difference it's not what i think its what i know from experience and looking at the police stats on crime.

    ppl say you dont need much room and theyre not talking about rolling
    throws virtually never happen in the street look at the stats and fights usualy happen in crowded places pubs dance floors fone boxes for god sakes

    you practice what you want

    ill practice for the street

    MF
     
  6. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    Yawn, yawn, yawn. You are a big old troll Frank. :rolleyes: :D

    The police stats on crime tell you nothing about how things happen, and most incidents never get reported anyway. Have you never seen somebody knocked down in a street fight, or pulled down by somebody jumping on them or slipping over? Maybe everybody in Morecambe is such a good fighter that they never get knocked down?

    I take my views from experience of seeing fights inside and outside pubs and clubs and from the views of the numerous bouncers and police officers who I train with, and they all value the wisdom of training not to hit the floor head first.

    Which street are you training for exactly, Festive Road?*






    *There is a bonus prize for anyone who can tell me who lived at 52 Festive Road.
     
  7. Punchy

    Punchy Purely Practical

    Mr Benn who visited the magic costume shop!!!!

    What's the prize??
     
  8. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    Two pints of lager. Congratulations!! Come and collect it any time. :D
     
  9. baubin2

    baubin2 New Member

    that's not fair, Punchy only lives about a few thousand miles away from you. The least you can do is mail it to him :)
     
  10. Punchy

    Punchy Purely Practical

    You can always mail me a couple of cans!!! It will arrive warm but that is standard for Pommie beer!
     
  11. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I did not read this whole thread but I will contribute anyway...

    I like the description that a breakfall is to keep you from getting hurt. It has been my experiences that breakfalls can help you but most of the time it is covering vitals and bracing (almost in a fetal position with arms tight around your head) that protects the most while utilizing the skills developed through breakfalls.

    The reason is that we breakfall as part of sport or safer training methods. This is very valuable to allow training at faster speeds, resistance, and intensity while still keeping safety as a priority.

    However, many of the actual projection (throw) techniques are really designed to twist the spine in wrong ways and/or land the other on head/shoulder or tail bone. The combat versions of throws do not pull up on the arm to help the other breakfall nicely but pull up stronger and at a different timing to make a breakfall fail or near impossible to do correctly. Hence, the projections were fight enders, not something to get the person on the ground to continue to fight. Just think of it this way, someone with relatively no skill attacks you but is strong enough to just pick you up and slam your shoulder into a concrete column or snap your neck, all while in the process of throwing you to the ground -- this is not some nice technique but being man handled and pounded. Then consider that there are actual combat versions of techniques based on more lethal principles that enable techniques to snap the neck or spine on the way down. So a skilled fighter utilizing the combat versions of many techniques does not have to be a lot stronger than you to still do some crippling damage.

    What comes of it is that I found that learning your counters to throws and doing whatever possible to keep someone from throwing me to the ground is very important. Once you lose your feet, brace your head, cover vitals and fight to get out of it. Breakfall does not cross my mind very often in these situations, although being supple does.

    I am not saying breakfall skill is not practical or valuable, because it can be, but it is not a first choice option in self-defense.

    Thanks for reading.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2005
  12. Colin Linz

    Colin Linz Valued Member

    I would agree with this, although I’m not to sure what you mean by, “Breakfall does not cross my mind very often in these situations, although being supple does”. I would have thought that neither would cross anyone’s mind in these situations. It is more a reaction to an action. Being supple is certainly important. It is why even though I learned on a wooden floor I teach it on mats. I have noticed people pick it up much easier when they know they won’t hurt themselves and they can relax a little.
     
  13. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Nice way to put things. I am a firm believer that it is more important what is learned than what is taught.

    By supple, I don't mean reaction or action. Reaction is always slower than action, so I think more in terms of initiative. So by crossing my mind, I did not mean conscious thought, so thanks for asking me to clarify. I meant seated instinct. You train your instincts to be natural and appropriate for a situation, and to act without internal conflict.

    Supple is an attribute/concept while breakfall is a particular tool/skill. Supple can be used in bilateral terms to gain initiative verses a powerful unilateral attack, but this can take years of training to develop the principles and understand them as bilateral approach not only means you have to adapt for yourself and opponent(s) but you also have to adapt for the environment to. Unilateral approach, such as simply hitting the other often and as hard as you can is much easer to understand and takes less time to get good at.

    For a student to learn to be supple, there are many teaching methods such as the training in a safer environment to help learn to relax and to be able to train faster and at higher intensities with less risk of serous injury. Being a hard to hit target, good footwork, push when pulled, pull when pushed, turn when pushed, enter when pulled, moving around the sword, etc. all part of being supple. But what it first comes down to is that a student is interested in learning AND the student can grasp the concepts/principles behind it all.

    Going back to breakfalls, first understand the concepts behind why you breakfall -- realizing that breakfall is a technique (or many techniques). It is so you don't get injuried in a training environment when training at higher intensities. The concept, IMHO, was never really to teach how to fight. Don't just assume that every technique done exactly how it is trained for safety is going to be used that way in a fight. Seek out the concepts behind the techniques, understand the concepts and then the details of technique will make more sense and you can adapt them to different situations much more effectively.
     
  14. Colin Linz

    Colin Linz Valued Member

    Yes I think we a lot of common ground, the principles and training philosophy are very similar to the way Shorinji Kempo is taught.
     
  15. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    PM me your address, and you'll get your beer. :D
     
  16. noodlemaster

    noodlemaster New Member

    No offense, but thats the same logic as not training in martial arts, just carry a gun.
     
  17. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    No offense taken, but I hope you really don't think it is the same logic, because, no offense, I could say that is a very shallow interpretation.

    I am trained in tactical firearms, carry, concealment, etc. Being trained in firearms re-affirms my want to train in martial arts; because of firearms training I recognize the need for martial arts in the civilian world. Now military action is a different scope, but the point is still that knowledge of one area should help you better evaluate the need for training in other areas.

    Breakfalling is valuable, but understand what it is for and where the concepts evolved from. The more you learn about breakfalls and the more you master them, this should re-affirm to you that you need to work counters to throws and build strategies to avoid getting taken down, with breakfalls as a last resort as a guideline for street situations.

    But then again, I can see how words can be intepreted differently. I don't always make myself as clear as I should.
     
  18. BackFistMonkey

    BackFistMonkey Valued Member

    spooky


    I must say so far I love your posts and your pose please post often and stick around . So I end with ....... of course with no offense intended .....
    [HAPPYDANCE]
    :Alien: OH BOY WE GET OUR OWN SPOOK !!!!! :Alien:
    [/HAPPYDANCE]
    Be well, Be safe, Train Hard

    BackFistMonkey
     
  19. noodlemaster

    noodlemaster New Member

    yeah...I was going to say a bit more about how that was an exaggerated statement I used to try and prove a point, but I was rushing.
     
  20. traz

    traz New Member

    disregard
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2005

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