Useful? (poll)

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by KempoFist, May 27, 2007.

  1. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore


    So practicing this technique in any way shape or form.....useful, or complete waste of time? How does something like this compare to your Kem/npo training?
  2. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    This is in many of the arts. I don't set up like that to receive the strike..But it is a number one strike and is considered an outside application. Several things like he mentioned and showed, can be done.

    Full commit on the attackers part is essential. If you do no get a full commit you have to do something else and quick. We step to the left from a standing position (not a ready like is shown) you might strike the arm or pull it through to accentuate the knee or kick or go for the throat with out touching the arm. The Parry can be used, many applications can be done.

    It is considered a number one from the outside to counter a number one punch (strike) in the Cabales system of FMA, very elementary and useful. It can become much more complicated. I never advocate the stance that is used, it is not a sport and more than likly the punch will come without a set up.
  3. 14 Kempo

    14 Kempo Valued Member

    I do not find the kick to be effective in a realistic scenario. If that person IS totally committed, he will knock you over, or off balance at the least, if you try to bring the left leg up that way. As for the rest of the technique, very effective. Attack the arm, immediately into the crosshand shuto or forearm to the throat, elbow and sweep ... can be very effective, if applied properly.
  4. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    Part 1. Gunting(limb destruction) is to be done in combination with movement. In most cases angular. He should be stepping to 10/11 o'clock when the punch is issued. Since he doesn't step, the rest of the technique I therefore deems crapola and should be tossed in the trash along with his belt and certificate.

    Part 2. Ghey kick should also be tossed into the trash. It doesn't follow any reason for being other than "I am gonna look like a Vegas showgirl when doing the kick. Where's my skirt and cocaine?"

    Part 3. Huh to no power "stun" shot to face/neck/head/whateva.

    Part 4. IF, and ony IF, I secretly glue the attacker's shoes to the ground before I work this takedown will it be effective.

    Part 5. Accent sucks.
  5. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Everything works in slow motion. And everything works when your attacker steps in and lunge punches you in the chest with his right hand, while pulling his left had back to his ribs.
    Unless he can pull this technique off live, I'd say it's a complete waste of time. Just some fluff meant to impress the easily impressed.

    Last edited: May 27, 2007
  6. Almost A Ghost

    Almost A Ghost Valued Member

    Numbered by moves.

    1. If you work the block and nail it, I can see that working, but it's an over committing block, so you better have something good to follow up with. Which this technique doesn't.

    2. That particular kick is probably the poorest choice of a follow up. If you miss judge the range between striking and kicking it's not going to be very effective. Also you are gambling that the block stops the attacker dead in his tracks and your kick, that has to be brought around the attacker right leg, is faster than a left jab. Also, you are bringing your left leg across the attackers body giving them way to much for a grab and sweep.

    3. The follow up shuto/forearm to the neck while trapping the arm with your right hand: pretty basic, and the technique could of ended right here by blasting him with a hammer/forearm to the temple/neck while buckling the back of their knee with your knee/shin kick.

    4. There is where it gets fancy and pointless for not other reason than being "cool". An elbow strike after a neck strike? The arm is too close to generate any real power for an elbow strike, it's obvious it's just there to be fancy.

    5. Now he ends the technique by doing something that could of been done by step 3. Fore arm strike, knee buckle, take down.

    So in summary, you start off with a relatively solid block, but then you have to maneuver your left leg to get a kick to the opposite side of the head when standing in punching range while your attack just stands their in amazement, and then maneuver that kicking leg back into it's original position. Then trap their right arm with your right hand, and instead of administering a final powerful blow to the temple, jaw, ear, or throat while sweeping you short cut for a quick neck strike then amazingly be able to generate enough power to deliver an elbow while it's just mere inches from their face, and then go back and go for the strike and sweep/knee buckle.

    In a technique with five steps, 1 is a gamble I wouldn't tell anybody to take, and 2 moves are frivolous. I found it *extremely* interesting that during the explanation of the technique he reminds you to mind the blocked hand because it might pop up and hit you in the face during a take down. Classic! Worry about the arm you just "broke" but forget about the fact that people usually plan on throwing more than one punch when they want to hit you.

    To answer the original questions
    Would I practice the technique? Nope
    Is it a waste of time? you bet
    How does it relate to my kempo training: Pretty much spot on. A hat full of techniques with a fist full that are probably within reason. It's pretty much the reason while I'll never go back to the style.
    Last edited: May 27, 2007
  7. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    The #1 punch not being used or effective and the training for it. Did any of you see the Liddell/Jackson fight? ;)

    The short strike and contact to the head and neck is effective.

    I am thinking it is time to pull the pin on all this, and reading the statements that are mentioned and the lack of quality of the various posters.

    I am sure it will be well debated about the number one strike and counters.
    You really need to try and look at it from a stand point of a lunge punch, what never used you say? OK, talk to Liddell. ;)
  8. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    How is that right hook that knocked him down confused with a lunge punch Gary?[/EXPAND]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2007
  9. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    yours, this, and mine... Hmmm

    Above is another opinion, of what it was.

    Then another,
    San Jose mentions.
    Quinton Jackson upset Chuck Liddell to win the UFC light-heavyweight title Saturday night at UFC 71 in Las Vegas, dethroning the champion with a hard right to the chin in the first round.

    Liddell toppled and Jackson jumped in to throw a couple of punches for good measure before referee John McCarthy stepped in at 1:53 of the first round to protect the fallen champion Source


    I'll watch it sometime today, (taped) see if the footwork and all, can verify any or all.

    I think you can safely say it was a wild punch, as Slip the jab mentions.
    As in a bomb. :eek:[/EXPAND]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2007
  10. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    Guys, if you're going to discuss last night's Liddell/ Jackson bout, we'd be grateful if you could use MAP's very handy Spoiler Tags feature for the rest of today due to differing airdates
    There's a sticky on the topic here
    Thanks a lot :)
  11. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    When do they release the hold on the spoiler?

    The news has been on it like a duck on a june bug. Most know that Chuck Liddell has been in a fight by now I'd think?

    Curious :)
  12. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    As I said in my previous post - the rest of yesterday. It's fine to post without them now
    The point of them is to be able to discuss the events without inadvertently ruining them for anyone that hasn't seen it yet due to differing airdates worldwide
    It's just a courtesy we appreciate since MAP is an international community
  13. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I agree with you about the courtesy, I will be using the ability from now on.

    I had received some E-mails that were interesting (different views on stoppage etc.) So I was asking about it regarding the ability to have the spoiler removed by the mods, auto, or if we did it?

  14. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    So KempoFist any more good ones, in your get kit?
  15. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    The tag stays put. Anyone wishing to see your post simply has to click that arrow
    Anyone saying that it wasn't a legitimate stoppage is wrong and anyone saying that Rampage's gorgeous right hook counter was a lucky/ wild swing is wrong too. It wasn't a lunge punch either
  16. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Regarding the lunge punch, I have looked at the tape and agree. I thought it was at first.

    Luck had nothing to do with it either, Rampage was being very good at what Randy and he worked at.
    Liddell messed up and deserved what he got. He was warned several seconds prior to that and scooted out of harms way, instead of doing something like fight back. LOL His stance and movement looked bad more than usual.

    But I do think it should not have been stopped so quick, considering the fighters involved. I have a few friends that think it was in the best interest of CL. But, it is close, I am sure Big John has/had his reasons, and feels good about it. If Chuck would have won it would have gone the same way of no rubber match, and Henderson getting the nod.

    But the fight with Houston over K Jardin was one that was fair. Not stopped but the trash talk he did to the downed fighter was BS. Heck of a fight though...Very impressive
  17. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    You're disputing the stoppage?! Liddell was completely OUT. Rampage's last shot woke him back up, but the dude was unconscious for a period. Any time a fighter asks his coach what happened after the fight, you know the stoppage is legit
    If someone's not intelligently defending themselves, the fight is stopped. That's what happened


    Now - back to the topic of Kempofist's hilarious video :D
  18. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    That is an angle I never saw before. It does look like he was out in this photo. That is quite a bit before Big John got to the fighters. Some mentioned he was hit in the face several times, and was really hurt.

    I did notice he said something that was disputing the call...The time of this photo is prior to the statement that is being mentioned that he is still defending himself. Good call? Only Big John knows for sure.

    The video is still something that is useful. If you don't think so, Oh well.
  19. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    The picture is of Big John stepping in to stop the fight. This photo is after he was trying to defend himself.

    Here's the video.
  20. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Thanks for the video guf.
    Up until Jackson mimicks him Chuck is the only one throwing much leather.

    And then a few punch's were thrown by Jackson, then CL gets tagged. But again from all the other vids and what I had seen prior to the pic here I felt it was not a good stop.

    A still is not a real good representation of what I saw or still feel was not a fair stop. But hey, that is life. Lost, and not a mark, not a scratch or any blood. Wow, that is real fighting or frightening :confused: To say the least.

    We will see how it goes when he learns he will not be catered to anymore.
    Maybe he will develop some ability to tell the world what he really thinks, or maybe he will just be a yes man to the organization that just bought out pride. Lied to us about the Tito, Dana fight, etc. etc. etc....
    I could go on, but I won't. ;)

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