ura mawashi geri

Me again, this time asking about reverse roundhouse kick. I'm currently following Van Zandt's latest programme to try and increase the range of my kicks, but i'm having the same problem i had with Mawashi geri.
I raise my kicking leg as per ordinary mawash and i need to kind of flick it round and drop my body to hit with the heel. The trouble is, if i drop my body, i simply can't get my hips open enough to perform the kick (my hips seem to be pointing in the wrong direction?). My sensei's advice doesn't really help, he reckons i need to turn my standing leg 180 degrees ( and then my hips really are pointing the wrong direction!).
Here's a couple of videos for the kind of thing i'm after.
If anyone can advise me, i'd be most grateful.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uqz0t9dWqw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uqz0t9dWqw[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfZBQQtdROk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfZBQQtdROk[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHtN0h96Pbc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHtN0h96Pbc&feature=related[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPH12cwF0gM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPH12cwF0gM[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bf2fdX0EZ0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bf2fdX0EZ0[/ame]

 

Hip pivots and heel points towards target, so yes, your sensei is right.

Practise practise practise.

Hang something at a height you can do the kick that isn't to challenging and do it over and over!

Try to practise without leaning too far back, you'll loose your power. Picking the supporting foot can help with this

 

practice it at knee height to get the movement right (you should be able to use it as a pseudo-sweep/knee stomp) than increase the height until form deteriorates and repeat.

 

I always do that as a side kick and then hook (it's often called a hook kick in TKD) at the last second so the heel only travels about 2 feet in an arc. So aim about a foot to one side of his head and hook back to a foot the other side. Rather than trying to describe a big arc in the air. Hopefully his head will stay in the middle.
I find I can get good snap with that too.

 

I'm not sure but you could be missing a fundamental for the kick. That would be that the striking surface is the bottom of the foot at the heel (as opposed to the back of the heel where it connects to the achilles tendon). Since you just say hit with the heel, I don't know what part of the heel you are hitting with right now.

Now it is only a matter of getting the speed and power to get the bottom of the foot to hit through the side of the target's head. Try this: imagine you are stepping through the side of the opponent's head with the bottom of your foot. Let the hips and supporting leg go where they naturally need to go for this to happen, and the right hip rotation should just come about naturally.

By stepping through the target on this kick, you will have good power and will not "bounce" off the target (which would cause you to lose power). Bouncing is not good as instead of transferring the full force of the kick through the target, you are instead bouncing and pushing yourself in the opposite direction.

For the speed component of the kick, work on flexibility, balance, and repetition of the above.

The third video you posted (Kagawa Sensei), I think demonstrates this form the best for starters, because there is no bouncing off of the target and the bottom of the heel is used as the striking surface. The second video is good because it is working with pads (allowing for the striking through the target to be practiced), but the striking surface as demonstrated in some of the kicks is sometimes using the back of the heel and that is no good, you end up hurting yourself on the kick if you hit anything solid. The last video (ura mawashi geri-2) is good, but since the kick is pulled and not going through the target for safety, it is not as good as Kagawa Sensei's video, IMHO.

Just my opinion.

 

I'd say, just think of it as a yoko kekomi to the side of the other guy's head and you won't go far wrong. The hip position is very similar if you want to get any power behind it.

PS. That fourth video down - bloody hell! I never thought I'd see someone make Masao Kagawa and Seiji Nishimura look inflexible!

 

That third video isn't the same kick as the other vids.
That's more of a twisting kick (as it's called in TKD) landing with the instep (although the second kick he throws IS a reverse roundhouse/hook kick).
And for the record I try to land with the back of the heel. Sole of the foot for points, heel for damage.

 

So for the record, you are trying to hit the target with the back of the heel, as in where the heel and the achilles meet? You are not trying to hit with the bottom of the heel which would be the part of the heel that is at the bottom of the foot.

I've seen back of the leg in hapkido to hook around the head, and bottom of the heel for damage. Back of the heel I always thought was bad technique. Sorry, I've never trained in TKD. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

Thanks for the clarification. Still seems like a dangerous place to be hitting with (too close to the achilles tendon), but I might not understand the details.

My rule for kicks has changed through the years. Right now I teach when striking with the heel, strike only with the parts of the heel that would come in contact with the ground if you were walking. So as long as by "back of the heel" you mean a part of the foot that would naturally touch the ground during walking, then I'm fine with it. Otherwise, it is different than what I would recommend in my teachings.

Of course, this makes both crescent kicks and axe kicks that I do have the feel of a stomp kick since I am imagining stepping through the head or collar bone of the opponent with the heel.

P.S. the hooking motion is still used in kicks that use the back of the leg (e.g. the calf) to trap the opponent's head, arm, legs, or hips. This would be more for grappling. A secondary use would be against a soft target like the kidneys.

 

Well I often refer to it as a hook kick.
To be honest I got a bit tired of all the nit picking with names. There's a few ways to throw this genre of kick. Start staright then hook, stay straight all the way, start bent go straight, start bent, go straight and then hook.
I refer to them all as hook kicks these days.

Yeah. As Mitch said. The back of the heel. The part of the foot that would touch the floor if you lay on your back with your toes pointing towards the ceiling.
Although the sole makes a nice slapping sound when it lands on someone's face.

 

Ah, I already stated I personally don't like that part of the heel as a striking surface for something hard, like a skull (I'm not a fan of the possibility of hitting the achilles tendon on the skull). But for something soft, like the kidneys, excellent striking surface.

One of the principles of the karate I studied was "hard weapon to soft surface, soft weapon to hard surface."

Also the difference is that the kicking method I use is more of a stomp kick than a snap kick (e.g. step through the head).

 

Well the back of the heel is also the surface you'll see used for any sort of breaking with this kick.
Never really seen anyone break with the bottom of the heel and it still be a hook kick, reverse turning/roundhouse kick. That'd be more of a side kick.

 

Yes, it is a different body mechanic than hitting with the back part of the heel. Striking with the back of the heel allows for good acceleration using the calf muscle. This is a good technique... the only thing I don't like about it is the possibility of hitting with the achilles tendon on something hard. That danger is enough for me not to risk it.

The stepping through the head is the same motion as a stomp kick, except sideways. This is more of a momentum strike. The momentum is focused on the heel because it is the hard surface. The goal is to reduce "bounce" (e.g. bouncing off the target meaning that only a percentage of the power is put through the target and the rest is pushing you back).

The difference can be illustrated with a training partner who is lying on the ground with you standing above them. Using say 10%-20% power, raise your leg and stomp kick down on their chest with a snapping motion to the solar plexus. Alternatively, now try it by just lightly putting your heel on the solar plexus. Now, with 10%-20% power, focus all the force on the heel as you step on them (all your body weight briefly on them and with all the force focused on the heel).

Don't stand on them for safety, just step on them briefly with all your weight. Edit: safety first. Pick a target that can take your weight.

Which kick is more effective and stunning them?

I've found the second method, stomp that steps through them with your body weight, to be much better use of energy and transfer of force.

Remember this isn't using the whole foot, although the whole foot hits, because the heel is boney, the "weight" of the step is placed on it.

 

That's a good point. I thought about that.

It is a good surface for striking, so it isn't bad technique as I stated before. I guess I would call it risky technique when striking to a "hard target" like the skull. Perfectly good for a soft target in my book.

 

Yeah, dat true. Kidneys is one of my favorite targets not on the list.

Hey, ArthurKing (original poster). I think with all this discussion on striking surfuce is important but the first thing is to practice to reduce "bounce" in any of your kicking techniques. So I think if you practice to step through the target as in my first post, you will build the fundamentals of body alignment and transferring the power of your kick into the target instead of back into you. After this, if you want to change the striking surface to the back of the heel. That should be easy to do because you will have already developed the fundamentals.