Personally i think that this is one of the most useless techniques in TKD. My instructor insists it works and that he used it once in a real life situation to good effect. I think that it leaves very little margin for error and ask myself if someone was going to punch/stab me would i use this technique to stop them. The answer is NO. What do other people think (maybe you feel pretty confident using this block) and if other people agree with me then why do we practise it?
There are two things I would use it for. 1) Having grabbed or locked somebodys arm, a swift upwards push into their elbow would probably break it. 2) If your attacker is at very close range then an upwards palm strike to the genitals could ensure they never walk again. Those are my own personal applications, but I'd have to ask my instructor what his are.
i wouldnt use that block... in taekwondo they taught ways to side-step-evade then counter... you step to the side, parry the arm closing the other hands easy range of movement and stike the head/neck/groin/solar plexus.... what ever tickles your fancy. in boxing we are taught the same, slip the punch, parry and punish.
I totally agree with that. I have to ask why do we practice it in 2 step sparring number 2 for instance without the grab?
Not being TAGB I wouldn't know what your referring to exactly. I can't think of any other situation where that block would work effectively. I mean it would be possible to block a front kick with it, but very difficult, and I wouldn't use it against a punch. Ever. Ask your instructor why he does it.
The third move of Joong-Gun? Perhaps it isn't a block? I'd never use the thing as a block - there's just no point! If you can use that block to divert a technique upwards then several things are already assumed: 1) That you palm is in contact with their attacking tool. 2) That their technique is at full extension (if this is not assumed then why move the the attack upwards - as someone pointed out, this merely diverts the attack from impacting in you chest to impacting in your face). From these two assumtions we can conclude that there is no need to use the block. If your palm, which is extended out from your body a bit during the block, is hitting your opponent's attacking tool at its maximum extension then why block it? Their attacking tool will only be hitting air. So there's no point. I think Ragnarok beat me to the arm lock. But another application could be the guillotine choke. Hope that helps, Alexander
I suppose if it was done quickly, it might work.... but in no way is it practical at ALL. it's just like the w-shaped blocks in Toi-gye.... weird-looking, completely impractical, and they just don't make any sense. to me the w-shaped blocks are the most pointless, at least in a palm upwards block you're not as exposed.... with w-shaped blocks your chest is wide open...aaauuggghh thinking about it gives me that "THERE ARE SO MANY BETTER THINGS TO DO THOUGH!" feeling >.< But, I should say this- although it has no practical use in a real-life situation, that doesn't mean that you should half-ass it when doing pattern or line drills. You're in class and you should still do it with just as much power as when you were taught it. ...i say that only because i hate it when people pick apart techniques and think they haven't got to do them beause they know that they're useless. it's part of the art- it may not be practical but you've still got to do it, and do it CORRECTLY. alright i'm done -kat
i think that upward plam block is raather effective when used against a kick it allows you to scoop the leg and overbalance an openent. It may not be the most practical block but it can be made to work in a certain situation.
Anyone have an image of this block. If it’s anything like the Wing Chun 'Tan Sao' then i'd say it is effective, assuming it's trained effectively. If it's more of a upward palm strike then aim for the chin. The initial strike might hurt their mouth/teeth but the aim it to push the head up and take them straight down.
Anybody who's chatted with me knows I'm not a huge fan of Choi Hong Hi. But Kat, your a blackbelt soon, right? And your saying that? "But, I should say this- although it has no practical use in a real-life situation, that doesn't mean that you should half-ass it when doing pattern or line drills." "completely impractical, and they just don't make any sense." I suggest you have a long talk with your instructor or cross-train in other martial arts. Every move in TKD has a purpose, and a good one. However it's been discarded somewhere along the lines, which makes me wonder what General Choi was thinking, or indeed if he even understood the moves properly. Even he wouldn't have used W-Shape block to stop a punch. Because it's impossible. However, all of these moves are very useful. I've gave two applications in this thread where palm upwards "block" [Or strike of course] could be used to great effect. I personally don't know what W-Shape block is used for, but I guarantee it works in other systems. Cavallin [I think] posted how she had a seminar with a guy who used that block [W] to get people into some very advanced Aikido locks. So therefore it can be used, just not the way we're taught. They're not completely impractical. I could also mention... Twin Block Wedging Block Circular Block That are taught to people in TKD, and although they all are great moves in their respective art and when used correctly, for some reason General Choi wrote their reasons within TKD for situations that they can actually never be used in. [And I'll explain that if anybody wishes me to.] TKD is a great martial art, but you have to go deeper than the surface. Like I said about palm block, I'll ask my instructor when I get a chance [he was very busy tonight] what his applications for W-Shape is as well and see what he says and then I'll post it here.
Agreed. I don't think he really knew what he was doing when he created the forms. It seems to me that the only reason they contain things of value is that they have all been plagarised from Karate. I think it may be likely that the only reason Choi created the forms was because he thought, or at least thought that the public thought, that forms were required to create a complete martial art. The W-shaped block? I interpret it as throws. I'd say the first W-shaped block you do in Toi-Gye is from having the opponent in an arm/shoulder lock (the twin elbow block). You then knee them on the chamber for the W-Shaped Block. Since Patterns are also a way of training then the second could be sid to be working your body symetrically. Let say on the second you grab an opponent by the collar and sleeve. The third will allow you to take them into a hip-throw. The fourth could be grabbing another opponent in the same way as two and doing a leg reap on the fifth. Perhaps stamping on them in the sixth to finish them off. Or whatever other types of throws could be gained from the W-shaped block. Please post your interpretations as well! Cavallin, do you know which Aikido moves were used by the guy who you did a seminar did (going on what Ragnarok has said)? I'd love to know that!
From what I've seen in my class, my instructors say it's to block someone trying to choke you with both hands. They also say it's a very outdated block. I think it's good to learn because it can teach you to think of an unothodox defense in a close fight.
AN OUTDATED BLOCK? HA HA HA HA! Thats priceless! If it does not work nowadays why did it work in the past?
He just means that it was taught for that purpose in the past. Then people realized. The same way people used to be taught flying kicks would take out a horseman.
Oh hunny, I'm damn well aware that every move has it's purpose. Don't you ever question that, ever. Note how I separated the realm of Real Life and Dojang Life, or, if you need me to spell it out for you, "real life" being street fights, and "dojang life" being when you're doing patterns, when you're doing line drills, and when you're being looked at to display proper preparation, breath control, and technique. I am fully aware that every single movement in TKD has a purpose- and never ONCE have i doubted whether or not they had a purpose or not. I have, however, and as I have displayed here, questioned thier practicality in a street fight, or the realm outside of the "dojang life". I am fully aware that within the walls of the dojang, within the mindset of taekwon-do, and taekwon-do only, that every single move has its own purpose. Never have I once said "That has no purpose or reason when it comes to taekwon-do situations." I do, however, take responsibility for saying that the techniques I previously mentioned have no practicality in a brawl situation. Now, I hope that you can agree with me that there is quite the difference between when one is doing pattern and when one is getting the crap beaten out of them in a bar fight. Unless, of course, your tul sessions in your school consist of over-sized, liqoured-up men looking to proove thier manliness with a stool and bareknuckle fighting. In which case... well, suit yourself and i'll shut up. However, as I severely doubt that bottles are being thrown whilst you indulge yourself in the, say, 38 movements of yul-gok, I'll just continue. In the world of taekwon-do, where everyone knows the rules and obides by them with relative conformity, these techniques have purpose and practicality. But in the REAL world, they don't have any solid practicality. Granted, that's not to say that they cannot be performed by someone in a real-life situation... the outcome, however, is debatable and circumstancial. In a setting where moves are anticipated and moves are controlled, these things are WONDERFUL, absolutely amazing, applaud-worthy, even. But when a 210 pound man is towering over you with a butterfly knife and breathing whiskey down your face, i doubt you'll use a twin palm-upwards block to fend him off. and it's quite ironic that someone who comes off as one who takes Taekwon-do very seriously, and apparently studies it dow nto the bone, has an utter distaste for the very man who created it. "Anybody who's chatted with me knows I'm not a huge fan of Choi Hong Hi."- I find that a bit of a contradictory. yep, i think i'm about done. 'kay thanks bye. -kat
You've kinda flew off the handle there... Okay. Believe it or not, I don't study TKD down to the bone, and no I'm not a fan of Choi, for a good reason. When I said "every move has a purpose" what did you think I was talking about? I do mean in real fights outside the Do-Jang. They work. The only example in TKD that I think wouldn't work is the sitting stance ones which are done for leg conditioning. If you want an example of which moves apparently don't work in a real fight just say so, and I'll either answer you or ask my instructor. What would be the point in learning a defence against an attack that would never come at you? There isn't a point. They can all be used in real situations in their respective ways and martial art.... Well. Except after Choi made TKD and thought it was necessary to take good moves he didn't understand and turned them useless.
When people question my compitency when it comes to martial arts, damn right I fly off the handle. That's my irish streak, I fight fast and hard. So long as everything in your bright little world is absolutely perfect, of course they will. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is following the same rules and everyone is excersizing the same amount of control. Flower pedals are falling on them, too, and pretty birds are singing. when you said "every move has a purpose", I took it as "when you learn a technique, you are told the attack to which it defends against, or what and where and how it is hitting, effects, and is excicuted." A definition of it, basically, with a few examples of how it can be used. For the sake of a stronger argument, you shoulda done that bit from the start. Do enlighten us, dearie, I'm rather curious myself. Keep in mind, however, the whole "real fight" bit. -kat
And perhaps because of that you still fail to realise what he's on about, judging from the next paragraph... Do some research into the history of forms. They were initially a register of moves. An entire fighting style would be condensed into 30 odd moves which contained everything in a fighting system. They are a mere memory aid, nothing more. Combinations are supposed to be taken from them and practced against opponents. For example, did you know that if Choi was doing things correctly he would have realised that there should be NO blocks in Tae Kwon-Do? The word for the techniques in Japanese is 'uke'. This translates correctly as 'recieve', not block. Which makes more sense - after all, most of the 'blocks' are truely moronic in their official application. In addition to this all the moves that are done are open to free interpretations by the person doing them. Punches do not have to be punches, nor blocks blocks, nor kicks kicks. Do honestly think that our ancestors would ever have created a system of combat that was useless in application?
