unruly kids

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by raaeoh, Apr 2, 2016.

  1. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    To keep it short. As an instructor, how do you deal with kids and bad behavior.

    To know more read on


    I have recently taken over the youth karate portion of the youth martial arts program at my gym. The program is grappling one day boxing one day and karate the other. I also teach a youth sparring class 2 days a week. This is of course with my instructors blessing, and encouragement. He does all grading based on my endorsement.

    The sparring class is great the kids all want to be there. And accept structure well. Of course we spend very little time on "the basics and kata" and tons of time sparring.

    The youth karate class at my gym is the most structured youth class there. Some of the kids are actually in the sparring class. There are 2 newer girls to the program. They really don't want to do the karate day class, because it's not as fun.
    They are basicly constantly disrupting class with their shenanigans.

    I play games give tons of praise, interact one on one. And reward when deserved.
     
  2. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    If they don't want to be there, tell them not to come to class. Or tell their parents. and if they still show up and disrupt class, make them do physically hard exercise until they're too tired and sore to be a bother.

    Basic drills are a very valuable exercise, and they are sufficiently tiring as well. Mix it up with short series of pushups or situps in between, and they should calm down quite rapidly.

    And if they don't want to do what you tell them to do, throw them out. Being allowed into class is a privilege, not a right. And you don't have to be mr nice guy all the time. It's also your job to discipline them when needed.
     
  3. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    Thanks for the input count.

    They already do tons of pushups, and burpees. Maybe a few laps on top of it may help. Already discussed removing them with the other trainers.... current finances made it clear to me that I need to get them under control.
     
  4. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    Get some car wax, some cloth and the ones who misbehave let them practice wax on wax off on your car until the end of the session. If it worked for Daniel Derusso, it could work for them.
     
  5. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Sounds tricky.

    Being led by the financial situation right now can be a little short sighted, because the disruptive ones are not only wasting their own time, but disrupting it for all the students (are they?) and setting a poor example for new/prospective students.

    So whilst you are 2x monthly fees higher right now, their presence (and disruption) might drive existing students away and discourage new students from joining.

    Also it undermines your position as leader and sounds pretty demoralising (it certainly would be for me).

    I suppose that it depends on your balance of priorities and how you want to run your class / school.

    For reference, I made two of my former students to leave my club because I thought they were bullies and learning for the wrong reasons. This was at a time when it was costing me money to run the club, so it cost me short term (it's all good now), but I'm certain I did the right thing for me and my club.
     
  6. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    25 mile ruck march through the desert will put them right!
     
  7. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Work them hard. Don't praise too much, only when they genuinely do something worthy of it. Withhold it, make them really earn it.

    Make sure they understand the expectations, then just sit them down at the side of class when they fail to meet them. Once they are sat down, ignore them for 5 or 10 minutes, then let them rejoin class. Repeat until they get the message and figure out that sitting doing nothing is boring.

    How old are they?

    Mitch
     
  8. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    Thanks for the input mitch.

    The oldest is 10. The other is 7. They are not family and they do not stand next to each other any more.
     
  9. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    That works with dogs too....



    :D
     
  10. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    At that age I think sitting them out will work, and they're not just being stroppy teens. I had a similar situation with a 10 year old recently, but once he figured out that acting up didn't get him attention, and actually denied him the attention of his peers by being excluded from the group, he turned a corner and is now an excellent student.

    Be very fair, very firm and very consistent. I sat this guy down for 5-10 minutes 3 times in a 1 hour class on occasions. No discussion, no negotiation. I set very clear boundaries and he knew what to expect. After each occasion I asked him why he was sitting out and got him to explain it so we both knew he understood. No song and dance so he was sidelined rather than the centre of attention, then rejoin the class quietly.

    It took months, but he's now a great student.

    Remember that one of the many reasons parents send kids to a MA class is to learn discipline, and your time and focus should be on teaching the good students, not disciplining the bad, so don't let them monopolise your time.

    Mitch

    This post makes me sound like some shinai wielding maniac, I promise I'm not! :D
     
  11. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    We do it similar too Mitch.

    If the kids act up a little we tell to behave or they will sit on the window side bench.
    With most that's actually enough; the others - get sent to that bench.

    So they can't attend anymore for a few minutes, but after that they know they are allowed to rejoin.

    In case it doesn't stop then: They get to sit on the bench next to the mats.
    Which means they don't get to come back on the mats but need to sit there.
    Works especially good if one of the heads of our club comes along as well, by accident (usually none of them is there at that time), and asks them why they have to sit outside ;)
    Sidenote here: None of the kids ever lied or complained here so far, but only explained that they misbehaved and what they did.
    I thought that pretty courageous and cool, to be honest.

    Same with parents: I never heard a parent complain so far.
    What I did hear though: "Well, it's your own fault." and variations of that.


    Alternatively, in cases where the kids don't bother the others but are in "no interest"-mood - they just get so sit at the side, like they chose to, and don't get any attention.
    After a couple minutes they usually rejoin - independently of what is done; there's only one kid who seems to try to avoid certain things (but he's five and acts off a lot, so that might not even the case).
    To be fair though: That only affected two kids: The five year old from above, who's at an age where concentration can be difficult.
    And a boy with ADHD, who's working with a doc already. At times he's a bit in meh-mood, but if you give him those two minutes he comes back; he's usually very motivated but also very sensitive, so might need that short break. He's also one of the kids, who got to explain to one of our heads, why he was sitting next to the mats.

    We *never* send any kid home though.
    That can be dangerous legally wise, in case something happens on the way, and is (especially with the little ones) more than just a little careless and irresponsible.


    As to the finances: I'm totally with Harry.
    Only because they pay right now, is a stupid reason to keep them.
    Even kids can get so annoyed by others, that they quit classes and look for new places, where they can train uninterrupted or with kids less noisy and annoying.

    Parents, who might see these girls acting off right in front of you, not counted.

    That's where the difference between "annoying and unruly" and "kids rebellion to try to push borders" comes into place.
    As soon as they interrupt for the sake of interruption, one needs too consider if the club/school really wants and needs those kids (or grown-ups as well, to be fair).
    If they're acting off at times, because their kids... well, they are kids, it would be weird, if they wouldn't do that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
  12. uptowngirl

    uptowngirl New Member

    Ahh this can be a bit of a pain for the other students as well. Some kids don't know how to get attention other than by being different. Another option could be to encourage class moderation of behaviour - where the whole class is punished if they mess up, but the whole class also has the right to correct their behaviour when they start to slip.... takes the pressure off you and continues to work as the class size gets larger.
     
  13. BklynJames

    BklynJames Kung Fu New Jack

    So I was watching one hundred eyes (Marco Polo Netflix). OHE said to his pupil, "Have I not trained you into exhausted silence yet? You are the teacher and you are in charge.
     
  14. kuntaoer

    kuntaoer Valued Member

    When I was teaching kids, I had set up a student court where the students dictated the outcome of situations that disrupted or brought discredit to the class.. I would let the students use peer pressure in which the students would be placed in the roles as judge, jury, prosecuting and defense positions of the court.. I would sit back and only act as a guidance when there was a problem.. Parents liked it and it placed the responsibility of the actions of the unruly students on the court.. It worked wonders because the students dictated the outcome and any decisions made by the jury and judge was put into effect.. The punishment was never physical, always more of taking the wind out of the unruly students sails because it would either be a mere apology to the class up to a suspension from attending class for a definite amount of time.. Parents liked it as it taught discipline and created free thinkers of the students which in turn made them more disciplined and readily accepting of their responsibilities in class and outside..
     
  15. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    I think Mitch's idea is definitely worth a try. If you're feeling sadistic, make them stand in shiko dachi facing a wall, instead of sitting, but make sure they're behind the other kids so they can't be seen by them.

    I really don't like this, though. As the instructor, it's your job to maintain order. Delegating the job to the other kids is cowardly and unjust. If you punish some of the kids regardless of whether they misbehave or not, you remove their motivation to behave well, since they get punished either way.
     
  17. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    And kids will REALLY start to resent you for punishing them for not doing anything wrong. Talk about a way to lose respect quickly.
     
  18. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Am I a bad person for really, really liking this idea? :eek: :D


    I'm not a fan of that idea as well.

    It's something that can be done, yeah, but I personally never liked it.

    What I saw (not during training MA, but when I instructed new altar servers): The kids can handle each other without punishment being close.

    We taught the kids not to fidget when working the altar (I never minded when they did so in the bench and told them that too).
    One day I saw one of our post shy girls, who would hardly ever talk, tap one of the kids on the shoulder, saying: "You're not supposed to fidget so much." - and the other kid stopped.

    I saw something similar during training as well, when one partner wouldn't train properly but mostly fool about.
    Before I needed to say something, the other kid did so.
    Personally I like or even prefer to encourage the kids doing that instead of punishing the other.

    Sooner or later most of "the others" see that the... sensible kids get positive attention and want a bit of that as well.

    Of course one musn't also forget: They're kids.
    Up to a certain point, they're supposed to fidget and be stupid at times, and the reaction need to factor that in.
    If grown-ups or older teenager were doing these shenanigans I certainly would react differently.
     

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