Ukraine say's Russia has invaded

m1k3jobs · Mar 21, 2014

i think all this just makes the usa look better than russia.
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That is what is know as damning with faint praise.

Ero-Sennin · Mar 21, 2014

Sifu Ben said: ↑

You won't find me defending America's foreign policy in the 20th century, they were idiots and the seeds of many problems we face now were sown then.
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You might want to change that to "the late" 20th century. Ol' England, along with other European countries, got the ball rolling.

Johnno · Mar 25, 2014

Sifu Ben said: ↑

So, Putin pre-revolution saying it's us or them.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/19/us-russia-ukraine-putin-idUSBRE98I0WB20130919
(first I could find, with the explosion of Ukraine-Putin news stories hard to search for)
Differentiation between Russia and the USSR is always tricky. The USSR was by no means a partnership of equals and the decision making processes were all massively centralised to Moscow and largely operated by Russians. Stalin was technically Georgian by modern definitions but he was born Russian and the area he was born self identifies as Russian. Brezhnev was born in the Eastern Ukraine to Russian parents. Every other premier was Russian. To a large extent the Soviet governmental apparatus was Russian.

America has sold in bulk to a few big buyers, and on occasion supplied arms to militant groups fighting Soviets or Soviet supplied groups, but come on, wherever it's kicking off everyone is rocking AKs, BMPs and MiGs.

You won't find me defending America's foreign policy in the 20th century, they were idiots and the seeds of many problems we face now were sown then.
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Stalin was an ethnic Georgian. I think Kruschev was Ukrainian (but I'm not 100% certain about that.) Chernenko sounds Ukrainian too. Maybe not many Soviet leaders were Russian after all!

Nevertheless, I agree with your main point. (And it's one I've made before.) The USSR was Russian dominated, in just the same way that the UK is English dominated.

inthespirit · Mar 25, 2014

Hey Sifu Ben, sorry, I seem to have missed your reply as quoted by Johnno above.

Thanks for the article you linked, though I wouldn’t really conclude that Russia gave an either-or position with that. It’s just regular economic precautions to protect Russian industries, and as there is no free trade agreement in place there is nothing unusual in this.

Not sure where you’re getting the info on Stalin from, he was born in Gori, Georgia to Georgian parents. I have not seen anything to show that Gori self identifies itself as Russian. I would have thought if that was the case, Gori would no longer be part of Georgia, but would be more like the other two separatist regions.

Yes, the Soviet leadership was centralised in Moscow. Here is a list of Soviet Premiers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_leaders_of_the_Soviet_Union

At least half are not Russian, or pure Russian (not that such a thing really exists, but that’s another issue).

With regards to the weapons sales, I can’t speculate as to who sold what to whom as I really don’t know the details, but we do know for a fact that the largest weapons exporter is the US. Also, it should be noted that AK’s are manufactured globally by numerous producers, here is a list of sorts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47#Production_outside_of_the_Soviet_Union.2FRussia

I wouldn’t be surprised if the same was the case for the BMP’s. As regards to the MIG’s they are usually Soviet era types and are traded by a host of nations which inherited them during the dissolution of the USSR.

inthespirit · Mar 26, 2014

Came across some of these on another forum and dug up a few others, interesting reading:

http://usawatchdog.com/80-decline-in-value-of-u-s-dollar-in-three-years-dr-jim-willie/

Ukraine-Desperation to Save the U.S. Dollar

I believe what we got with Ukraine is an absolutely desperate situation where the U.S. government realizes we have to stop Ukraine from becoming a central transit point for energy pipelines in the fast developing Eurasian Trade Zone. They need to stop the Eurasian Trade Zone because the United States and England are largely going to be excluded. If you look behind the curtain to see what is really going on, I believe this is the third attack on Russia’s Gazprom. It is a giant monopoly that Russia controls for natural gas. The first attack was veiled and it was Cyprus. Gazprom bank was gigantic and it was in Cyprus. . . . Furthermore, Russia was using Cyprus as a clearing house for buying gold bullion. . . . The second attack against Gazprom was Syria. Iran pipelines were to be connected with Syrian ports. . . . There is a war in the way. That’s what the U.S. does. There is a war in the way. Now, we have the third attack against Russia Gazprom. The U.S. and Europe actually believe if they control the gas pipeline valves, they can control the flow on the Western corner (of Ukraine) that feeds Romania, Poland and Hungary. They actually believe if they control the valves, they can control the flow. What if the flow is cut off?” Dr. Willie, who has an earned PhD in statistics, thinks the manufactured Ukraine crisis is an act of desperation by the U.S. Dr. Willie explains, “Have you ever know someone truly desperate, who has no options, that did stupid things? That’s what we are seeing now.”
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http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/19/ap-blasts-russian-propaganda-war-over-ukraine/

AP Blasts “Russian Propaganda War” Over Ukraine

Leonard is asking, in effect: how can anybody imagine that the government of Barack Obama would support a government in Ukraine including serious neo-Nazis? How can imagine that the shocking incidences of sniper fire preceding the transfer of power last month were in fact probably organized by the anti-Yanukovich opposition?

But the fact is: there are anti-Semitic neofascists in the group that seized power suddenly on Feb. 22, including four cabinet members in the Svoboda Party, to whom Leonard makes no reference. Instead Leonard pooh-poohs Russian concern about Right Sector storm troops aligned to the Svoboda neo-Nazis. (For what it’s worth, the World Jewish Congress designated Svoboda a “neo-Nazi” organization last May. They are probably not engaging in a mere “smear campaign.”)

Leonard calls Right Sector a “radical ultranationalist group that spearheaded the most violent assaults against riot police” in the Maidan events,” yet says it “is a subject of scaremongering daily exposes” in the Russian press. (Leonard thus raises the question: Why should anyone encourage people to fear radical ultranationalists given to violent assault, such as Svoboda and Right Sector?)

These groups are in fact being exposed by western columnists as well as Russian journalists. They are not interested in “scaremongering” but in understanding what has happened in Ukraine recently.

Leonard states “For all the attention it has received, the [Right Sector] group has not been granted any posts in the new government and observers say it has little actual clout.”

Pardon me? Two top members of the Right Sector—Andry Parubiy and Dmytro Yarosh—now hold the posts of director and deputy director of the National Security Council of Ukraine. They control the police.
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http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/17/who-benefits-from-ukraines-economic-crisis/

Who Benefits From Ukraine’s Economic Crisis?

Most accounts of the situation in the Ukraine and Crimea have focused to date on political events and conditions. Little has been said in the press about the economic consequences of the Coup and subsequent events, or likely scenarios for the future.

What interests—in the Ukraine and global (i.e. western Europe, USA, Russia)—stand to benefit economically from recent and future events in the Ukraine? Who stands to lose? There’s a well-worn saying, if you want to find out ‘who benefits’, then “follow the money trail”. That trail will also lead to the inverse, ‘Who Pays’.
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http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/12/caught-red-handed/

Caught Red-Handed

“In the latest debacle for the US State Department and the Obama Administration, US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland was caught on tape micro-managing Ukraine opposition party strategies with US Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt. That the Ukraine regime-change operation is to some degree being directed from Washington can no longer be denied….The taped conversation demonstrates in clear detail that while Secretary of State John Kerry decries any foreign meddling in Ukraine’s internal affairs, his State Department is virtually managing the entire process.”

– Daniel McAdams, “‘F**k the EU’: Tape Reveals US Runs Ukraine Opposition“, Ron Paul Institute

Washington is at it again, up to its old tricks. You’d think that after the Afghanistan and Iraq fiascos someone on the policymaking team would tell the fantasists to dial-it-down a bit. But, no. The Obama claque is just as eager to try their hand at regime change as their predecessors, the Bushies. This time the bullseye is on Ukraine, the home of the failed Orange Revolution, where US NGOs fomented a populist coup that brought down the government and paved the way for years of social instability, economic hardship and, eventually, a stronger alliance with Moscow.
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China’s view???

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-02-200314.html

How Crimea plays in Beijing

"We are paying very close attention to the situation in Ukraine. We hope all parties can calmly maintain restraint to prevent the situation from further escalating and worsening. Political resolution and dialogue is the only way out."

This, via Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Li Baodong, is Beijing's quite measured, official interpretation of what's happening in Ukraine, tailored for global consumption.

But here, in a People's Daily editorial, is what the leadership is really thinking. And the focus is clearly on the dangers of regime change, the "West's inability to understand the lessons of history", and "the final battlefield of the Cold War."

Yet again the West misinterpreted China's abstention from the UN Security Council vote on a US-backed resolution condemning the Crimea referendum. The spin was that Russia - which vetoed the resolution - was "isolated". It's not. And the way Beijing plays geopolitics shows it's not.
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http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/98649/8570918.html

Four lessons to be learned from the Ukraine crisis

Some Western countries were quick to back the independence referendum held in theAutonomous Province of Kosovo and Metohija between Sept. 26 and 30, 1991; now they voice their objections to the referendum in the Crimea. In the past they have advocatedthat human rights – for example the right to self-determination - take precedence oversovereignty; now they claim that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine areparamount. Such double standards are rooted in the fact that in the final analysis, thevalues of the western powers are entirely determined by their own self-interest.
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m1k3jobs · Mar 26, 2014

thevalues of the western powers are entirely determined by their own self-interest.
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Of course, would you expect it to be any different. I'll bet the Russians have their own self interests at heart as well.

Power mongers across the world are playing dominance games and the common people are the pawns.

So what else is new?

greg1075 · Mar 26, 2014

Rhythmkiller said: ↑

America, Britain and France have asked
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Yeah, they've asked several times now. I heard they added "pretty please with sugar on top" the last time they did. The Russians are shaking in their boots.

inthespirit · Mar 26, 2014

m1k3jobs said: ↑

Of course, would you expect it to be any different. I'll bet the Russians have their own self interests at heart as well.

Power mongers across the world are playing dominance games and the common people are the pawns.

So what else is new?
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Indeed!

What grinds on me is the blatant disregard of the powers that be. Either they are so detached that they believe their own nonsense or they take general populous for absolute brainless idiots, probably both really.

GSHAMBROOKE · Mar 27, 2014

Steven Seagal Has Some Thoughts About Vladimir Putin And Ukraine

Oh dear first that basketball player hanging out with his good friend in North Korea and now Seagal has to put his two cents worth in about Russia, why is it that some people that get their heads on TV suddenly become in their minds lots of things that they are not they must place more importance in themselves then most other people do.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/steven-seagal-has-some-thoughts-about-vladimir-putin-and-ukr

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Ukraine say's Russia has invaded

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Ukraine say's Russia has invaded

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