Ukraine say's Russia has invaded

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Rhythmkiller, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Its a tool in the box to further a countries international policy and insure their self interests. I always thought it was quite a simple concept :p
     
  2. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

    this is sad to me, i am a quarter russian and a quarter ukrianian. My mom was forced to only learn russian since USSR occupied it while she grew in the Ukraine up and it was outlawed to speak or much less try to learn Ukranian IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY!
     
  3. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    I can't think of anyone who has an interest in Russian expansionism. China is the major power most sympathetic to the Russians and they share a contentious border with them.
     
  4. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  5. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Protesters in the Ukraine didn't die? They were acting on there own. They weren't puppets of politicians. And the bully everybody turned on in this case ran away to illicit the help of a bigger bully. Maybe I was watching different news coverage.

    As we scale up the intensity of the conflict there is a greater risk of more and more people being pulled into the conflict. There is a greater risk of collateral damage. And the more people involved, the less likely it is the leader or instigator will take the flak.

    The pattern is the same from the playground through domestic violence, drunken nights out, football hooliganism, gang violence, violent mass demonstration and all out war. And pretty much the same pattern is seen all across the animal kingdom where animals live in territorial social groups.

    There is nothing special about war. There's no great mystery to it.
     
  6. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    "Russia's President Vladimir Putin has asked his upper house of parliament to approve the deployment of Russian troops in Ukraine, the Kremlin says".

    "US President Barack Obama has warned of the "costs" of any Russian intervention in the Ukraine".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035
     
  7. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Where is Captain Price when you need him?
     
  8. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Reuters is saying the vote was to take control of the Black Sea region which IIRC is leased to Russia anyway?

    edit: That said, Al Jazeera's piece is more in line with the BBC that its a country-wide thing. Thought this was interesting

    I would say that that's the dumbest thing the Ukraine could do right now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  9. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Do they have a choice though? They can act or accept the partitioning of the Ukraine by Russia.
     
  10. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I suppose. The best they can hope to do though is delay the Russians long enough to get a UN deal. Granted if they let Russia take the Crimea now then that deal will probably be giving it up to them, but I imagine that would be the end result either way. If Russia is actually trying to take control of the area and not just flexing then I don't see another outcome. The West is not going to risk a war with Russia by getting directly involved (overtly anyway) and from what I can gather the people of the Crimea would be happier with that outcome too. Ukraine fighting Russia means Ukraine losing, badly, and if they somehow managed to get a deal with Russia to leave them alone then they'd probably just end up with civil strife from the area too.

    However this has been reported I don't get the impression that an EU integrated Ukraine is what the country as a majority wants. If the government hadn't started killing protestors I doubt the movement would of get anywhere near as far as it did.
     
  11. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    If this escalates, it's a spat between Ukraine, the EU and Russia. The protesters are at best collateral.
     
  12. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    So are you volunteering for the front line?
     
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Screw that. Russia can have Ukraine. It's no skin off my nose which corrupt government runs that country.
     
  14. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    I agree. The Crimean is ethnically Russian. They identify with being Russian. Or at least that is the narrative the media are pushing. They definitely speak Russian.

    We should also remember the EU was pushing hard for a deal with the Ukraine in the run up to this conflict. A deal that Russia strongly opposed. The Ukraine had also previously tried to join NATO and was rejected because it was too politically sensitive. It might actually be a good thing for the Ukraine to give up that Russian part and then the other part that has always leaned towards the west can get on with forging stronger bonds with the EU.
     
  15. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    gazprom a russian company is the biggest supplier of natural gas in the world it's pipeline runs through the ukraine. the ukraine has a strategic port in Sevastopol.both are crucial to Russia's security,I don't believe Russia will surrender either willingly.after Syria I don't believe obama will push this one because Britain didn't back syria and I'm guessing that Putin said to /britain if you back the US in Syria then you will have cold lonely winters with no natural gas..something similar will happen hear..............all sound and fury, but signifying nothing ( to quote the baird)
     
  16. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    But we can source gas from elsewhere. There's a massive LPG port off the coast of Wales specifically built to allow the UK to bring in gas from around the world.
     
  17. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    This probably sounds pedantic, but it's Ukraine and not The Ukraine.
     
  18. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    No, it just sounds correct!
     
  19. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    The America approves of this post.

    Ukraine your head a little every time you see somebody write it that way, don't you?
     
  20. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    :happy:
     

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