UK law and kobutan

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Stan O'Kella, Jun 8, 2005.

  1. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    You appear to be attempting to trap me into a comment that will leave me open to the same old arguments.

    Can the police access internet history? Absolutely, will they specifically look for online content such as this? Highly unlikely. Police investigations are not as cute comprehensive as we would wish them to be.
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I'm not trying to trap you into anything, it just amuses me when people write how no-one will ever know their intent for using tools as weapons on public forums :)

    I know that at the moment it is highly unlikely that, beyond social media using real names, forum posts will find their way into a criminal investigation (barring terrorism or paedophilia), but that is likely to change in the next few years, and information on the internet is not going to disappear. I am involved on the periphery of murder investigations as part of my work, so I'm not entirely naive as to the inner workings of the UK police.

    I was being honest when I said that we might as well talk technique.
  3. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    You raise an interesting point regarding new legislation, I am aware of it but I await its enactment before I read up on it. I will fully agree that a murder investigation will see internet history recovered and to some extent analysed, but I don't believe evidentially it would prove anything at all, put to you in interview, absolutely but it's not clear proof of intent for that occurrence, providing you are not all over the Internet with wild outrageous claims of violence. Even reasonable doubt isn't enough for most judges these days 'Must be sure of guilt' seems to be their standard direction to a jury now.

    Social media is certainly used in criminal investigations, Murder and sexual offences tend to warrant a look into Internet and media history, but rarely do violent crimes unless there is a suspicion that messages have been sent or photos taken relating to the violence.

    I by no means disagree with what your saying, but in a practical sense the police rarely adequately investigate crime throughly and a self defence type scenario (unless involving death) would be fairly open and shut if you say the key phrases. "I was in fear, I couldn't remove myself safely from the threat". Etc etc

    Tactics, I am sure most on here are far better placed to comment on tactical use of impact weapons, which is what I would say would be its main usage.
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    So have you, for instance, practiced using those types of improvised weapon in grappling? Could you use it for locks or subduing? Parrying other weapons?
  5. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Yet you advocate the use of the torch as a weapon.

    This isn't aimed at you, but GM Danny Guba would tell you if you advocate the use of a weapon and have no skill, you are a caveman.
  6. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    I'm happy to hear anyone's opinion, it's how I learn.

    I use impact weapons regularly, batons to be accurate, I have had some but not a great deal of exposure to kobutans. I have some skill but I'm interested to hear from those with far more than I.
  7. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    My experience is moderate with impact weapons, I have practiced striking, blocks, application pressure points and some locks. The instruction I have had I would say lacks realism and combative application. My actual experience tells me this.
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Do you concentrate mostly on striking with the baton?

    When people talk about kubatons, I usually think of this kind of thing:

    [ame=""]Basic Self Defense with the Kubotan Key Chain - YouTube[/ame]

    "You wait there while I do nasty things to you" type training. I agree with Simon that the ability to grab properly is likely to be a bigger benefit than the kubaton. One thing they can do is keep tension in the gripping hand, so as to protect it from damage if the person is unused to punching bare knuckle, but gripping a post-it note will do the same, and you'll never get busted for having a pad of post-its!

    Regarding pressure points, mechanical control is far safer than pain compliance. I would only use pain to either get into a mechanical control, or to aid the retention of a mechanical control.
  9. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    I would say that that the majority of baton work is striking.

    Totally agree with point of placing hands on someone and obtaining sufficient control through pain compliance prior to applying mechanical restraints.
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, batons give you a nice range advantage for striking that is not there with the kubaton. You also have a much larger striking surface, so things like percussive disarms will be more likely to work with a baton. You can generally flail a baton around and people will be wary about closing range.
  11. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    Instead of a Kobutan consider a big heavy ecig mod. Some of them are like solid metal lightsabers.
  12. goog

    goog New Member

    Check out my new original self-defense weapon - the law does not violate!! ! Link removed
    Video [ame=""]combat canes - YouTube[/ame]
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2016
  13. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    We don't allow advertising on MAP and your video would normally be deleted and a note added regarding whether you wish to place an advert, however, I think the guys and girls here will have a few comments they'd like to add.

    The belt is a weapon plain and simple.

    It's too cumbersome to fit inside belt loops, so wearing as you show makes it clear it isn't a belt and you are hardly going to get away with calling it a fashion item.

    Next is the time it takes to turn it into a cane.

    You can hardly ask an attacker to wait until you've finished building the damn thing.

    If I give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it is indeed a belt and you wan walk down the street without getting the attention of the police you are going to get arrested as soon as you defend yourself with it and that it is clearly something you've carried as a weapon.

    As they say on Dragon's Den, I'm out.

    There is much better on the market and this is another foolish attempt to re-invent the wheel.

    Welcome to MAP. No further adverts please.

    If you wish to place an advert please contact site Admin.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That has to be a spoof, right?

    Although the addition of gardening implements is a neat idea for the allotment crowd.
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Definition of a weapon in most jurisdictions is "is it carried as such?"

    That's clearly a "yes" for this as it doesn't function as a belt

    A weapon is essentially - made, adapted or Intended for offensive usage....this falls under made AND intended so already clearly breaches most legal definitions

    Ironically carrying a real, actual cane would not, unless you were silly enough to admit that's why you had it on you
  16. slasha

    slasha Banned Banned

    Are all batons included now? I don't think you can buy a straight Arnold style baton or the old wooden NI police and army ones either now. I dunno how you would get on with a PR24 style side handle one either but tonfa still are on sale.

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