UFC 100

Discussion in 'Fight Discussions' started by callsignfuzzy, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I thought the Coors comment was funny too. It was the one good moment in an otherwise-embarrassing escapade. And it was made even better by his apology for it: "I'll never say no to any sort of beer" (or something like that). I brought it up, not because I thought it was bad sportsmanship in and of itself, but just because it indicated to me that his outburst was premeditated.
  2. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    I think the political correctness arguments are a bit pointless. No-one is saying you can't swear or give someone the finger. People are just criticising his actions as reflecting bad sportsmanship and a bad attitude.
  3. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    lol... you guys are still whining about Lesnar. tsk tsk tsk... so I'm sure you will all be backing up your oh so awesome disdain for such a disrespectful fighter... pfttt... you guys are fakes as... you know I know it... you will be watching Lesnar's next fight like everyone else. What a bunch of total drama queens you lot are. lol. :hat:

    I'll expect that the same lot as here will be bitching and moaning as well... but oh well... that's how some people are.:rolleyes:
  4. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Your still whining about us whining about Lesnar :cool:
  5. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Really? Anybody who was displeased by Lesnar's behavior, and says so, is a fake? Anybody who voiced their displeasure with his behavior has to now boycott all UFC events where he participates or else they're a hypocrite?
  6. Topher

    Topher allo!

    I don't see anyone claiming that their going to refuse to watch Lesner's fights, and I don't think criticism of him implies that. Where's the hypocrisy?
  7. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    There's some disconnect here. If I don't like a guy's post-fight interview, I should stop buying PPV shows? Yeah, that'll show him who's boss. And kind of misses the point.

    My original post:

    I stand by it. Lesnar does have some growing up to do. I could care less about his remarks about Mir or his wife. The other stuff, yeah. Here's why:

    -Getting in the face of a guy you just beat, especially while adrenaline is still running high, has the potential to degenerate into another fight. A fight against a guy who was unable to defend himself ten seconds ago. And I don't think a bunch of potbellied 50-somethings from the NSAC are going to be able to do much about that. If things had gotten physical, that would have endangered Mir's safety, as well as the safety of the officials and cornermen in the Octagon. It also risks having a fine leveled against Lesnar, and possibly the UFC. It's a violation of the Unified Rules (unsportsmanlike conduct that can cause injury to an opponent; attacking an opponent under the referee's care). I get that Lesnar was amped up. That doesn't make it right. While this action wasn't "wrong", he had his toes on that line. It was unnecessary and could have led to a bad situation.

    -Flipping off the crowd. Maybe you don't recognize it, but MMA is still fighting for legitimacy. That gesture was disrespectful, not to an opponent, but to "the people". No person in particular; he might as well have been flipping of me or you. And while the two of us can probably shrug that off, that doesn't leave a good impression of the people who paid $40,000 for a ticket, or who were just watching MMA for the first time. The last thing MMA needs is a high-profile fighter who leaves a bad taste in the mouth of a) newer fans and b) money-paying fans.

    -The comment about Coors/Bud Light. You don't **** off the sponsor of the guy who signs your paychecks. That's unprofessional, period. You, as a representitive of your company, have just aggrivated your boss's biggest mainstream sponsor. Perhaps even put off other potential sponsors. I get that MMA isn't exactly a team sport, but it doesn't make sense to do something that might cost your boss money. It seems even more ridiculous in light of the fact that Lesnar is probably the highest-paid athlete in MMA.

    I've followed Lesnar since his days in WWE. I've defended him against people who called him all size and no skill, against the 'roid accusations, and against the people who called him a "fake" wrestler. But since I've followed him that long, I can tell you that he's selfish and immature. He left the WWE at the hight of his career because he didn't like the travel. He got awarded the IWGP title in Japan and left without losing it. He played some preseason games with the Vikings and, when they offered him a spot in Europe, he quit. This is a guy who bought his own private jet because he didn't like traveling with other pro-wrestlers.

    He's not a likable person. I accept that, because I watch MMA for the science and strategy; they don't have to be angels. But when you're the public face of a company, you should behave with more decorum.

    Now before you go calling me a "drama queen", take a few things into consideration. I don't have a problem with profanity. I'm ex-Navy. We invented new words because we over-used the old ones. I also don't have a problem with obscene gestures. I flip the bird as a form of salutation. But you know when I didn't do that? When I was in public in my Navy uniform. When I was working with customers at Home Depot. The public sees the uniform, not the guy behind it. MMA still has a stigma of being a blood-drenched spectical with roided, tatooed thugs who are allowed to stomp their opponent in the head. Never mind that it hasn't been close to that since 1997 or so; that's what people think it is. Guys like Bill O'Reilly go on a tirade, saying that MMA allows "punching, kicking, and gouging", and people believe it. The similarly-named Bob Reilly, a New York lawmaker, says that there have been 13-14 deaths in MMA, and people believe it. Some people still don't think it's real fighting, that it's a new kind of pro-wrestling. Mainstream publicity doesn't mean mainstream acceptance. In light of that, the post-fight interviews from Alves-GSP and Silva-Franklin 2 do much more for the cause of advancing MMA than Lesnar's antics. And the thing is, people are ten times more likely to talk about something that's left a bad impression with them than something that's left a good impression.

    I'm not worried for MMA's future in the long-term, but its short-term future will be far better served by fighters bowing to one another out of respect than the Heavyweight Champ flipping off the entire Mandalay Bay Event Center and giving and admitedly pro-wrestling inspired post-match speech.
  8. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    You call people 'fakes' with such words as 'you know it and I know it' and then call OTHERS 'drama queens'? That is pretty rich.

    I don't have much of a problem of Lesnar's post fight antics. But I can see why others might. And I can't see why anyone would suggest they don't have a right to their opinion while at the same time saying, "Hey! Lesnar has a right to call it as he sees it!!!" Why would one have the right to speak his mind, but not the other?
  9. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    Doesn't this ever get old? Just get over it guys, it's done, you've made your points. Repeatedly. I thought this thread was about interesting highlights and insights into UFC 100. Instead the thread title should be "Five pages of whining about that bad boy Brock Lesnar."

    Really, can we move on now? Other things happened in this UFC too you know. Who was surprised by the Hendo v Bisping match? Does anyone think this means Hedo will start moving up the quality latter in fights again? Does anyone think he could ever actually beat the spider? Does that fight take one giant step toward permanently relegating Bisping to gatekeeper status?

    What about GSP? Is he going to have to change weight classes to get a real fight now? It seems the UFC is in some danger of having the top ranks rather static for a while in many of their weight classes. Is there anyone who wouldn't pay to see GSP v. Anderson Silva if one of them did change weight classes? Personally that would be a dream fight for me, but I think it would have to go to Silva. He's got all the skills and more power, I'm not sure how GSP would pull it off.

    Does anyone want to have a real conversation that involves anything other than whining about Lesnar?

    Slip the Jab, the Brock Lesnar of MAP. ;)
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2009
  10. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    I'll admit I don't want to see GSP and Anderson...mostly because I'm a fan of both. For the same reason I wouldn't want to see Anderson vs. Machida.

    And why should GSP get Anderson right off the bat (like BJ got GSP). Why not have him prove his mettle at middle weight. A very interesting matchup for GSP would be Dan Henderson. Could GSP put a really great wrestler, who is bigger and stronger, like Dan on his back? How about Franklin? Another great matchup for GSP without immediately going to the Anderson.
  11. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    Good point. Beyond the fact that they would be good fights, it would give GSP a chance to retool his strategy at the heavier weight. It would make the final showdown with the spider more interesting. If he got there. It ain't easy fighting bigger, stronger guys when they're as highly skilled as some of the middleweights.
  12. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I want to see GSP go up, this might have been the first time I saw him in a full fight instead of highlights but he's fought and beat pretty much everyone worthy at WW. What was his reaction like when Rogan asked him though? I can't remember
  13. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    I'd like to see GSP-Silva take place at a catch weight (180lbs, maybe). Marketing-wise, it gives an "out" for both fighters: GSP is still facing a larger guy, and Silva hasn't cut that much weight in a while. And because no title is on the line, it's a less complicated situation if GSP wins, because there's no conflict about whether he should drop his WW strap, or try to defend both titles.

    GSP's takedowns are so good because of his timing. Not that he isn't technical, but unlike Hughes and Koscheck, who just rushed forward at Alves, GSP engaged him with strikes, got him to return fire, and the second he started launching a strike, moved in for the takedown.

    Not sure how this would work against Silva's counter-striking style, but his takedown defense is pretty weak, and his ground game is very basic. Black belt or not in BJJ, he still fights like a pure striker 90% of the time.
  14. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    I don't know...yeah he seems pretty easy to take down. But the grapplers who have done so haven't easily submitted him or pounded him. His ground game seems pretty under-rated. He does a good job of reversing people.
  15. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    The only guy I've seen him reverse was Travis Lutter. In that situation, Lutter had drained and dried out himself the day before, trying and failing to make weight. He also tried to go for an armbar at an inopportune time.

    Silva likes to lock in that body triangle and stall or strike. He doesn't look for sweeps or submissions. While that position is a formidible one, it's almost entirely defensive. GSP is great at passing guard and has better ground-and-pound than anyone who's been stuck in Silva's guard. GSP's skills on the ground are offensive, and he's got the skill to get the fight there. I see little danger for him on the ground.
  16. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    Just got done re-watching the event. I think Bisping is probably going to be stuck as a gatekeeper for some time. Politically, the UFC needs him in as much as he's their poster boy in the UK, but other than a load of trash talk, I don't think he has the skills to deal with top flight competition at this point. He's a decent boxer, and his footwork has gotten better, but Hendo was very effective at cutting him off and containing his movement. Plus the in the post fight interview Hendo did with sherdog, I was interested in this comment:

    "I got hit by a couple of his rights, and he just doesn't hit very hard..."

    Doesn't make me think Bisping has the starch to deal with the best at 185. Ok Bisping fans, let me have it, tell me why I'm wrong.
  17. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Didn't he reverse a takedown and finish Nate Marquardt with punches on the ground?
  18. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    You are absolutely correct. Face it, Henderson has been hit by a Who's Who in MMA so who would be better to make a judgement call on who can hit hard?
  19. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress


    Ok, now that is sig-worthy!
  20. GrappleorWrestle

    GrappleorWrestle Valued Member

    Hendo's face knows what its talking about. Its beat almost completely flat and has no teeth!

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