UFC 100

Discussion in 'Fight Discussions' started by callsignfuzzy, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Yeah, taking his title would be too much, and you're right, suspensions don't work when you compete three times per year.

    How about a hefty fine? He loses 25% of the money he was going to earn for competing at UFC 100? I've seen fines like that used in football and I think baseball.
  2. GrappleorWrestle

    GrappleorWrestle Valued Member

    Go Pride style. For every yellow card the fighters receive they get 10% of their purse taken away.
  3. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Riiiiight. So the crowd that booing... from the get go... doesn't deserve the finger. Wrong. They do. And they got it. Or is the audience somehow sucha sacred cow that OMFG we can't possibly tell them to shove it?

    lol... of course we can. That's exactly what Lesnar did.

    Boohoo... the crowd got the bird. Hilarious you whiners are still crying about the middle finger. :rolleyes:

    Right.. that's it go ahead and try to sum up the middle finger as the downfall of MMA. Somehow now MMA is sliding down the slippery slope towards fake-wrestledom. Comedy.
    Wrong. He got chastised by Dana White no doubt who is trying to make the UFC as acceptable as the NFL or the NHL or the NBA. But I don't think that for one minute Lesnar apologized because he was truly in his soul sorry. He apologized because Dana White has his agenda. Don't mistake the two.

    Yeah you're implication is all the same so why even bother to bring it up. Watch his program. Look at his record. Not everyone that is huge or physically gifted is on roids. Not everyone that gets worked up by a booing crowd and flips the bird is down to roid rage. So you brought it up because you wanted to insinuate that could be the problem. At least have the guts to stand by what you imply.:rolleyes:

    Aww the poor widdle audience got the bird. I could give a rats ass. They booed and booed... well then they have to expect that they're going to get an unfriendly reception...

    tell you what Mr. Sensitive... you and your League-of-Audience-Protection-From-Harmful-Bad-People-With Middle-Fingers... can just as easily voice your silly opinions with your viewership. Don't watch the next Lesnar fight if his antics really tie you panties in such confounded knots. Take up Tennis viewing or try golf. lol. Start a knitting circle.. the crochet club is always looking for new members. Better yet beef up your whining a bit and start a letter writing campaign...

    Dear Dana.... you know the drill.

    It's the finger people... wake up.... where the hell do you live?!?!? Mayberry!?
    Sweet Jesus!~!!:bang:

    I've got fingers on both hands up in the air... I'm sure you can guess which ones.
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  4. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Interesting. I'm personally not that bothered by him flipping off a booing audience. Especially not when he clearly handed out the ass beating that he did. So most of it is that I get a kick out of winding up sensitive types and those who would play the Ms. Manners role. :p

    I'm sure he will reign it in. I'm sure that Dana White will make sure of that. The audience will get over it and find someone else to boo. Most people are so caught in their MMA fanboy world that it's a mortal wound for them to see a big dude from WWF or whatever wrestling show he was in ... come in and just kick ass in the heavyweight div. - it screws with their sense of 'OMG we are t3h d34d733!!' - well they just had the fact that a dude as big and as strong as Lesnar with a competitive drive like his and a college wrestling background is never going to be a pushover. That's life.

    Man... I really do wonder where some of these people live that the finger is such a mortal wound. I mean Jesus... they sure as hell can't be from New York. :p
  5. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny


    I didn't see the fight, but from what I've read, he said and did a lot more than just flip off the audience.

    Regardless, it's just plain bad sportsmanship. Sure, NYC taxi drivers may do it a lot, but I think a lot of people hold professional athletes engaged in their sport to a much higher standard than they hold a taxi driver weaving through gridlock.

    I'm trying to understand your perspective better. Is it that you don't think a high degree of sportsmanship and courtesy ("Miss Manners," as you say) is important in professional sports in general? Or is it that you think MMA shouldn't be held to the same standard as football/baseball/track/etc?
  6. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Can I just interject here with a quick statement about steroids: there is no such thing as roid rage. This is something completely made up by the media to put a negative spin on those who use them. The only real behavioural effect of steroids (aside from increased sexual desire) is the possibility of slightly enhancing characteristics you already exhibit, so if you are an aggressive person you might be a little more so but if you are a calm person they might make you even more chilled out. People who have gone through stages of naturally high testosterone through training effect after a lay off know what this feels like. To put any event down to "roid rage" is a ridiculous statement founded in ignorance.

    I'm not exactly pro-steroid but lets get facts straight.
  7. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    umm... such as? Please tell me he hasn't murdered Mir's entire family now. Hopped on his wife and pulled a horseshoe out of her ass too. ROTFLMAO!!

    Seriously... why not actually watch the fight and then comment?

    Like I said... I'm not that fussed by it. The audience was booing up a storm because Brock Lesnar won. Go figure. If they are clueless enough to be booing then I think getting the bird should pretty much be expected. All of you doing the hand wringing over the middle finger should devote some of that same energy to trying to educate the audience on why it's poor form to boo someone who's won fair and square. :rolleyes:
    Sports in general has at most times sportsmanship involved. I don't really give it much thought because I don't follow too many sports.

    I don't really care what they do in baseball, basketball or (lol) track. I really don't. It never burns even one second of my daily time. MMA is about the fights and in fights you're going to have strong personalities. It's part and parcel with an aggressive and competitive sport. As long as a guy plays by the rules (which Brock clearly did when he beat that ass) then I could really care what sort of hype he runs after the fact. I don't expect my fighters to be whitewashed and pristine. In fact I find that in general to be as fake as hell.
    Brock spoke what was on his mind... he backed it up with his fists... and he had a good laugh at the end when the audience booed and had some rather tongue in cheek comments about a horse shoe up Mir's ass and some about his old lady getting hopped on.

    Not the end of the world. Not worth a ban... barely worth Dana White talking to him. Like I said... go watch the fight and the comments and then you come back. If you find it so terrible that it completely sods your sense of right and wrong in the universe... don't watch it. Just boycott Brock. lol. But this whole lot that is

    "Oh my heavens.. then he did the middle finger... gasp!!! that's right!!! the MIDDLE FINGER!!! and too the audience!!! EGADS!!! He actually gave them the international FU symbol!! "*faints

    are about the same sort of lot that are running gouging their out their eyes and slitting their writs because Michael Jackson died. It's so much drama over very, very little. What bunch of total maroons. :p

    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  8. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Slip I think your taking this the wrong way. If Lesnar had got up and started swearing about his opponent and people criticised him for it that doesn't mean they never come across swearing or that normally they would even pass comment on it. It simply means that in the context of a top tier sporting tournament what he did reflected poorly on him and yes I would also say it does leave a negative impression about the sport.

    I recognise a significant difference between someone like Tank Abbot and someone like GSP and I think MMA is moving away from the Tank Abbot's and towards the GSP's which is a good thing. Randy Couture is another example. Guys like that not only inspire people to train but they make the sport more socially acceptable (which should be a concern when it's still banned in several states!). Now Lesnar isn't a Tank Abbot in terms of training or athletic ability but in terms of ring persona... I can't see a massive gulf between the two.

    As for Lesnar getting booed well... he got booed because of his attitude not because he won! If he had been even a little bit humble in his post match interview I can almost guarantee he would have been cheered. Instead he reacted to being booed by being even more obnoxious. So he got booed even more...

    He is a hell of an athlete and there is no denying it but I don't think that's all that matters. You can be an athlete and still be an obnoxious egomaniac and just being an athlete isn't enough for me to ignore that 2nd bit.

    I've seen Brock interviewed and not being a git so I really think this is just a matter of WWE overspill.

    And Adam I just had a cursory glance through some sites discussing whether 'roid rage' is a myth or not and it seems there are some studies suggesting it's a real phenomena (though not as it's popularly reported). Can you point to some better resources that show it's a myth?

    EDIT: Though I do agree this is a bit of a storm in a teacup but then this is a discussion forum so discussing this kind of thin is our raison d'etre.
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  9. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Why don't I go and watch it? Because I missed it when it happened and because the UFC zealously prevents videos of their pay-per-view events from being posted on YouTube and the like. I looked for it online last night and couldn't find an actual video, only articles about it.

    Track is lol-worthy? It's physically intense, there's no excuses for a loss, and it's not dominated by high-paid prima donnas.

    Do you find Randy Couture to be "fake as hell"? Just curious. How about Mirko Filipovic when he vigorously defended Minotauro in an interview and tore into the Croatian press that had criticized Minotauro? How about Machida? Are all of these guys liars and hypocrites?
  10. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Your Google foo is weak grasshopper.


    That was about 15 seconds of standard Google search using the term "lesnar vs mir 2".

    Who can be a prima donna when they're being stripped of titles for illegal drug use and banned substances left right and center...and those are only the ones who are getting caught?!?! Now that is LOL worthy!!!

    err... don't try to put words in my mouth. The guys you noted are class acts. I don't have idyllic vision that all fighters need to be the same. In fact I'd rather that people come to the table with what they are. Be it bad or good.

    Gotta love how now MMA needs to be what other sports are.. MMA now needs to live up to their standards. Yeah right... you follow baseball at all... ever notice how many guys are so clean cut and the idols of millions of kids and fake as hell... that's right... go take a look at how many home run hitters are repeatedly caught telling lies about steroid use... seriously if that isn't whitewashing then I don't know what is. So let's be clear... I really would rather that if someone is a brash, loudmouth with a hot temper that he be that and not some fake as hell carbon copy of the average sports spectator thinks is the well mannered sports hero. :bang:
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  11. MaxG

    MaxG Valued Member

    I think at this point it's clear slip just doesn't get it. We've said it numerous times that it's not the case but he's still clinging to the "The audience was booing up a storm because Brock Lesnar won." argument. Again slip no one here is arguing Lesner's performance DURING the fight or the fact he won. It's his actions and comments AFTER (you don't seem to be getting this) that people dislike.

    So again you're commenting on something unproven? You're absolutely positive that Lesner didn't look back on the tape and realized he was acting like a jackass? You can say 100% what is in Brock's head? Nothing but pure speculation there slip. Straw argument.

    Again, reading comprehension for the win. The fact is this guy acted like he was roid ragin. If you can't understand that "If I didn't know UFC tested their fighters I'd say roid rage in a second..." isn't saying he's on roid's then I can't help you.

    And by doing so you're showing everyone you're as classy as Brock. You go slip!!! :rolleyes:
  12. MaxG

    MaxG Valued Member

    Hmmm. I've read differently.


    "Researchers report that users may suffer from paranoid jealousy, extreme irritability, delusions, and impaired judgment stemming from feelings of invincibility."


    "Administration of AS may affect behavior. Increased testosterone levels in the blood are associated with masculine behavior, aggressiveness and increased sexual desire. Increased aggressiveness may be beneficial for athletic training, but may also lead to overt violence outside the gym or the track. There are reports of violent, criminal behavior in individuals taking AS. Other side effects of AS are euphoria, confusion, sleeping disorders, pathological anxiety, paranoia, and hallucinations."

    I have SLE (lupus) and am on steroids. Due to aggitation/paranoia I was taken off the drugs but had to be put back because the pain and inflammation were more than I could take; not to mention dangerous. So now I'm back on steroids and I know when I'm unreasonably irrate. I can feel it myself and it's miserable for me and those around me. Usually I can avoid people to try and keep it at bay, but not always. I asked my doctor if there were medications to counteract those problems and he said "Yes, but you definitely don't want to be on them!" Does anyone here have any recommendations on how to deal with this?"

    Everything I've read from most medical practitioners state there is a significant emotional and mental shift due to the body's hormonal imbalance. I've taken prescribed steroids before and for me personally I did experience a slight personality shift much like what the person above asking for help was stating.

    Of course this is a moot argument because as I stated before Brock wasn't on roids. The UFC tests. Maybe I should have said he was just an *******?
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  13. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    I hate to say it...I really hate to say it...but I sort of agree with Slip. Of course I always was a fan of Charles Barkley, back in the day, when he used to say, "Why should people look to me as a role model. I'm a competitive athlete..."

    The booing was a factor in all of it. Lesnar gets so much fricken hate. And why is that? Because he is this big dude with all these physical gifts and he just seems like a bully. News flash. The guy HAS skills. Skills he worked very hard for. You don't just win the championship because you are big and strong. I heard the guy only lost once in his college wrestling career, by one point!

    So you win. You've been getting negative reception from the 'MMA community'. What are you going to do? You're going to laugh in their face. You're going to say, "Yeah, I know you wanted me gone. But guess what. I'm here to stay baby. You don't like it? Tough."

    How many times have you seen fighters getting booed get emotional? I've seen Rogan calm people down by saying, "Well that is what you get when you mix adrenaline and alcohol." I've seen another commentator say, "Okay forget the fans for a second and tell us about the fight..." We're emotional beings, like it or not. How many of you have lost a game or some such and sat in the locker room punching the lockers screaming "FRICK, FRICK, FRICK, FRICK" (only it wasn't frick).

    After a bit you realize life goes on and it isn't that big of a deal. But right after? You're emotional. And Lesnar is competing where the stakes are higher than any of us have had to deal with. So I'm willing to cut the guy some slack...not that he cares. :)
  14. MaxG

    MaxG Valued Member

    Anyone watching the fight will see some clear events.

    1. When Brock was introduced SOME people booed him. GSP was booed a lot (and I mean a HELL of a lot) louder than that when he fought Matt Hughes. Difference? GSP handled it with class.

    2. Brock refused to tap Mir's glove when Mir extended it. Anyone watching mma knows that a person that does that is gonna get a guaranteed boo. Which is exactly what happened. Mir extended the glove, Brock turned and walked away, the crowd booed.

    3. Brock wins. NO ONE is booing. Mir stumbles onto his feet. He's clearly still not all together there. Brock circles around, again this is less then 10 seconds after Mir has stumbled to his feet and people are still helping him to his feet, Brock shouts at the groggy Mir "Talk **** now mother****er." Anyone watching mma for any amount of time knows that this is a no no. You talk **** to someone that you just kicked the **** out of and YOU'RE the jackass in everyone's eyes. The crowd booed him.

    4. Watching the events anyone will clearly see that while a few expressed their dislike of him, a majority didn't start booing until Brock started with his bad sportsmanship and WWE antics.

    Top it off with flipping off the crowd and that ridiculous comment about getting on his wife... (which I doubt will happen because of all the roi... oops almost did it again ;) , lol.)

    Nah, cutting him some slack puts it in his head that he can do that **** all the time. I agree with one of the above posters. Dana should fine his ass some serious $$$$.

    And to be honest I really didn't care one way or the other about Brock before his BS. I didn't care he was a pro wrestler, I didn't care if he won or lost in all honesty. Now I can't stand the guy. Good marketing? Maybe. Still doesn't change the fact he acts like he's on roids. ;)
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  15. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Thanks for the link, Slip. After watching it, I'm actually more disappointed in Lesnar's lack of sportsmanship, not less. MaxG already said most of what I was going to say, but here's a few other points:

    (1) Not only did Lesnar refuse to touch the glove of Mir, the ref had actually ordered him to. "Now touch gloves." Lesnar not only disrespected his opponent, he disobeyed the ref in order to disrespect his opponent. Sorry, but that's ultra-shoddy sportsmanship.

    (2) When Lesnar was first introduced, some people booed, but a whole lot more cheered. At the end of Round One, after Lesnar dominated, NOBODY booed. The assertion that the crowd was just out to hate on Lesnar just isn't true. The crowd reacted to what he did during UFC 100. They didn't come into this event unanimously and blindly biased against him.

    (3) Did Lesnar really spit on the camera? I'm looking at the second video.

    (4) Not that it really ties into sportsmanship, just personality, but his wife did NOT look happy at the very end as they walked out the octagon (once again, looking at the second video).

    And finally, Slip, you mentioned that you would rather take people as they come than have them fake good sportsmanship if they're not like that normally. I disagree. Sportsmanship isn't something you're born with, like eye color. It's something you can learn, something you can build up, if you decide you want to. And I think part of ANY sport is encouraging sportsmanship--both for the sake of the competitors, and for the sake of those fans who look up to the competitors as role models. And how does a society encourage good sportsmanship? By cheering a loser who is gracious in defeat (like what happened here). By booing a winner who lashes out verbally or physically at an already-defeated opponent (like what happened here). And by people publicly expressing their disgust in bad sportsmanship, like what is happening on this forum.
  16. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Ah I see why we disagree here. You seem to be saying, 'Slip. Can't you see this guy is a jerk? Let me point to the overwhelming evidence...'

    And the evidence is overwhelming. Mir came across as the classy and intelligent man in the post fight interview. No doubt. He came in in amazing shape as well. I was rooting for him and was a bigger fan of his after the loss.

    But back to the point. So Lesnar can be a jerk. So he can get a little amped up. It doesn't offend my moral sensibilities. In fact I think it is a good life lesson for kids...well maybe not kids since this is MMA. You show them this and say, "This can happen in life. You try and you fail at things. The winner gloats in your face. Shoves your loss down your throat. If you challenged him 100 times you'd lose and lose. Life isn't always fair. But you dust yourself off like Mir, pick yourself up, and move on."
  17. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Well, I think there's two different arguments going on.

    You seem to be advancing one argument: that Lesnar was admittedly out of line, but that it doesn't really matter that he was (or even that it's good that he was, because it gave Mir a chance to rise above adversity). That's one where ultimately, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

    But there's a second argument out there: that Lesnar wasn't out of line. That the misbehavior was either exaggerated in second-hand reports, or that it was warranted by an aggressive and hostile crowd who pushed an otherwise-respectful guy over the edge. It's this latter argument that I'm arguing against right now. After seeing the video, I don't think it can be argued that (1) he didn't develop the bad attitude until he was booed after his victory (because he refused the ref's order to touch gloves even before the fight began), or (2) as he said in his apology, he was just angry at Mir because he is a sore loser and he lost to him before (why take a pot-shot at a sponsor and spit on the camera if that was the case?). Instead, looking at it, I can come to only two conclusions. Either (1) it was premeditated misbehavior, or (2) he's always like that. Neither of which is consistent with the argument that he wasn't actually out of line, that he was just reacting to a hostile crowd, and that his actions are being taken out of context.
  18. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    I don't know how much i buy your explanation on this, it's not "made up"... I don't disagree on the effects. But It doesn't just enhance "your characteristics", it enhances the things you feel. Everybody has things that irritate them or gets them upset and angry. It can be just small things, little irritations but they get amplified. So a normally mild person can get much much more angry about something they normally might let slide or be cool about.

    I think it is perfectly justified to refer to this as 'roid rage' and that there is such a thing.

    I write this because I was personally effected by this myself. i was prescribed a course of steroids when i had a bout of Bells Palsy that left half my face paralyzed.

    anyway something triggered me off and I completely flipped out (in a scary way) were i'm sure normally i wouldn't have done so in the way I did. Before or since I havn't flipped out like that - i scared myself, no joke.. I'll never forget it.

    You could argue that that sort of rage was just latent in me or potentially in me anyway. I'm not arguing that the steroids cause anger or irritation, but it's like gas to a flame. Big or small the gas amplifies it way out of normal proportions. They can cause a bit of normal anger/upset to turn into full on rage that is abnormal.

    That was my experience.

    I' would also like to add that i completely back and agree with slips views on this (only reading this page), the guys a fighter, he's emotional. Screw the boo boys and critics. As for image and political correctness, screw that too. Are people really that brittle or care about this sort of thing that much.. that a guy flipping people off and mouthing off/ letting off steam gets their knickers in a bunch. It's just pantomime, know what i mean ?
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  19. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Just a small point, I'm guessing some if not all of you train mma. If you had someone join the gym you train at and get in someones face and talk crap like that after a spar or a fight what would happen? I know for a fact they'd be out of SCS with a kick up the **** probably after being invited to fight my coach. I don;t expect it from the people I train with so why should the UFC be any different?
  20. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter


    I definitely wouldn't argue that Lesnar is an 'otherwise respectful guy who was pushed over the edge by booing'. :)

    The guy is not what you'd typically describe as a classy guy. He IS a sore loser. That is also what makes him a huge competitor. He is on the edge...no doubt.

    Were his comments in bad taste? Obviously. But I'll admit I laughed at the Coors comment. And also, in a strange way, his comment about 'getting on top of his wife' was sort of sweet (in a bad taste sort of way). Remember he said he was going to relax with friends and family. Then he looked over at his wife and made that comment. And she started cracking up and clapping. Sort of cavemanish. A 'This my woman!' comment. But based on her reaction it seems they share a sense of humor, etc. So that sort of showed a human side to Brock Lesnar.

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