Turkish football fans don't agree with the rules....

.....like a boss.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KinmQNdOULc"]''Problem?'' (Eskisehirspor from Turkey) - YouTube[/ame]

 

I love an Ultra led atmosphere at the football.
Only two UK clubs have got genuine Ultra credentials - "Green Brigade" at Celtic and the "Holmesdale Fanatics" where I go at Crystal Palace.

 

Thank God.


(How do you define "genuine Ultra credentials"?)

 

ultras are a bunch of dumb arses. they've managed to ruin going to football games for the vast majority of the fans.

 

oh no its the warm blanket, flask of hot tea and an egg sandwich brigade I mean who wants to go to a game with atmosphere, wrap that. overpriced ticket sales and tv deals have ruined football for fans not ultra's who have existed since the 1980s, what a ridiculous statment.

 

sorry but, the who ?

 

problem?

probably only if the stadium catches fire because of idiots. And that never happens. Right?

paul

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyU1bE2ZAa4&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyU1bE2ZAa4&feature=related[/ame]

some great turkish teams with some great support.

 

nup it doesn't, maybe you shouldn't make such blanket statements on things you are not educated about, there were a slew of football disasters in the late 1980s but they were all pretty much down to football violence, outdated policing tactics and the poor upkeep of stadiums but never any fires due to pyrotechnics, I cant think of any incident of anything like that.

 

Im sorry, but how on earth would you have any idea about my level of education with respect to the use of pyrothechnics. I was in the navy here, which is where I developed a healthy repsect for the things. I get that it is unlikely to cause a fire, but that isn't the same thing as saying it can't happen.

I also think that cutting loose with a bunch of potentially flammable objects in a very crowded environment is dumb, even if it is just because it could cause panic. Seriously, what on earth is wrong with just turning up and watching the game. I am clearly under the incorrect assumption that this was the basic objective here.

paul

 

I was talking about football and ultras not pyrotechnics you mook.

but it wouldn't cause a panic because people are expecting it from ultra groups who are generally confined to there own regular section of the stadium, very few people would turn up to a game not knowing this is common place.

 

yea that will happen when your not European, hotdogs and foam fingers for all.

 

mook is new! Sorry tout, that was a bit knee jerk on my part (and a teensy bit provoked on yours methink...). This is both an old argument, and not one to have at a range of 10000 km over the internet. I propose we both resume the conversation over a beer at closer range when the opportunity presents itself?

It is more that kind of conversation.

paul

off to look up mook on the web...

 

and we dont really do hot dogs and foam fingers here either. More beer and punch ups.

paul

 

lol fair do's, as for mook watch some scorcsese movies

 

ha ha ha,

just checked. The skippy translation would probably be spanner. It is a shame the terms of service limit our range to such an extent

paul

 

it's not a ridiculous statement at all. i've been to plenty of european football matches in england, greece and italy. i've been on the receiving end of plenty of ultra violence in my time. i just think the ultra mentality is b.s. yes, i know i'm tarring a lot of people with that brush, but they deserve it. the flares, the lasers pointed at opposing players, the destruction of stadiums, the missile throwing, the racist chants (even funnier/sadder when their own team has black people on it), the violence outside stadia, etc. etc. are you really going to try to tell me it's safe to take young children to millwall/west-ham? or roma/lazio? like i can take my kids to see cubs/cardinals in the states? or bears/packers? ever heard of the heysel disaster? or hillsborough? or geez, the riot during roma/lazio a couple years ago? there's constant violence amongst besiktas, galatassary and fenerbahce "ultras". hell, there's even violence between ultra sects of besiktas fans. is that what you think makes a good atmosphere? flares, missiles, racist chants and violence?

 

wow what a level of ignorance to fit into one post, your going to bring up hillsborough and heyesal as arguments against ultra group's ? no mention of football hooliganism, poor policing, crowd control and the bad upkeep of stadiums ? football hooliganism is no more synonymous with ultra groups as right wing politics are, every group is different just as every team is different. If you support a team with a bonehead following who hurl abuse at there own players based on the colour of there skin and look to cause violence then that's your problem dont try and paint a picture that every other team or ultra group is like that.

 

ah yes, i was waiting for this. the splitting hairs of ultras != hooligans. sorry, no such distinction. i've seen way, way too much football-inspired violence in my day to make that distinction.

i know this is an internet forum and you don't really know anything about me. even though i live in the united states, i've lived in europe, travel to europe quite frequently and have been following european soccer very closely since 1980, at least. i've sat in home and away team stands at several stadia in several countries. i've seen the policing necessary to keep the peace, and that usually involves security in riot gear and plexiglass and cages between sets of fans.

did you not notice that the italy/serbia european qualifier in genoa last year had to be stopped because of serbian "ultra" violence? did you not notice the stabbings during the roma/liverpool champions league matches from a few years ago? did you not notice the fake rumor that roma ultras started (where a kid roma fan was killed by police, supposedly) during the derby della capitale a couple years that started a riot and forced the match to be stopped? did you not notice the kid lazio "ultra" shot and killed when juventus and lazio "ultras" decided to riot at a highway rest stop? you talk about "poor policing". let me ask you, if 15 "ultras" decide to start a riot and cause a crush, what can the police do? even a phalanx of police in riot gear? the answer is nothing. i can come up with at least ten more recent examples just off the top of my head.

i'm a very proud laziale and aek-tsis. i think the behavior of a small clique of football fans really does ruin it for the vast majority that are not violent. that's about all i'll give you, that the vast majority are not violent. but the few that are are a blight on the sport and need to be eliminated. and if that means eliminating "ultra" groups from the stands, then that's a small price to pay to keep people alive, or not stabbed in the **** as they're walking around town.

 

check this list out.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism

notice how many in the 2000's and the 2010's. it's not getting better; if anything, it's getting worse. if you really want to see something, sit in the visitor stands at any aek/olympiakos/panathinaikos (athens derby) matches. go ahead. i'd love to hear your perceptions after that.

it's a beautiful sport. some of the fans are idiots though.