TUF18 - Rousey v Tate

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Princess Haru, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Spoiler tags, dude!
  2. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Edited! :)
  3. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

    we never spoiler tagged TUF discussion before but OK.
  4. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Raquel straight up froze that fight. Shame, she has cool tattoos. I'm trying to remember the last time I was willing someone to throw leg kicks as much as I was watching that fight. She landed almost every one she threw but instead decided to play defensive in a boxing match.

    Tate did a bad job as a coach too. I know she hadn't done it before the season so I'm not really dogging her for it but she did next to nothing but cheerlead for that whole fight. I'm also fairly sure at least twice Rocky got caught with straight rights were after Tate shouted "Rocky!" really loudly. Ah well.

    Happy for Jessica though and that finale fight with Pena is awesome.

    I did also enjoy Rousey's staredown and her "get used to wiping your [bum] with you other hand" threat. I don't care if its a tantrum, I enjoy watching it.

    Maynard - Diaz is a main event I'm really looking forward to as well. Yay!
  5. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    One fighter stuck to her game plan, one fighter didn't. Guess who won.

    Rocky is a beast, but she's a stupid fighter.
  6. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    What could she do? Her fighter wasn't doing any of the things they'd told her to do? Her entire gameplan was take her down, beat her up, and instead, she decided she wanted a boxing match with a former world boxing champion. What a moron.
  7. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    At least try to give technical advice? Call for kicks, if they were adamant on wrestling then scream for a takedown instead of "make this a fight" over and over again. Considering her problem was that, as you say, she got hung up on trying to box a boxer then that's definitely not the best thing to say since the first thing it brings to mind is swinging with someone.

    When BJ Penn was getting wrecked be Edgar did his corner do the right thing because they told him he was the best and he could win over and over again or would they have been better cornermen if they at least tried to give him some idea how to do it? I think the latter personally. There's certainly a place for just trying to boost your fighter's confidence but I don't think that place is for the majority of the fight.

    I'm not blaming the loss on Tate. Her fighter had a brain fart and that's not her fault. I also acknowledged she's not an experienced coach. But I do think she could of done better with what she was shouting.
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    They did tell her to go for the takedown (or they maybe told her to try again after one attempt failed), and when she was in clinch they were giving her specific instructions about how to finish the takedown. I'm not sure that calling for a takedown is a good idea, because your fighters opponent hears it too and prepares to stuff.

    Honestly I think 'make this a fight' was a reasonable thing to shout at a fighter who was plodding forward and getting hit over and over again. 'Do something you silly cow!' would have been even better and 'what the heck are you doing?!' better still.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2013
  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    One thing she could have done is to NOT tell her fighter that she won a round that she did not win. She was getting outboxed and one weak takedown at the end did NOT steal the round. She told her fighter she won, but the most she should have said is it might be close. And probably not even that, because I think most people watching gave that round to her opponent.

    It gave her fighter a false sense of how the fight was going.

    A better thing would be "your losing because you aren't sticking to our gameplan. Win the next round by sticking with our plan."

    Of course Tate has a history of bad corner advice. Remember the fight where she told Carraway to coast the last round because they were sure he was winning so far? And he lost that fight.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2013
  10. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Caught some of the weigh-ins replay this evening/morning – man, Diaz looked haggard. Even considering how much he hates cutting, I don't remember him ever looking so hollow-eyed before. Man of Few Words had even fewer tonight, though he was pleasant enough and managed a smile – a remarkable feat in itself given that the Master-of-the Bait 'n Switch Interview-Trick Extraordinaire (almost, I almost did) , Ariel Helwani was interviewer.

    I think that's why I have a fondness for Diaz (Nick as well) – in a sport that is coming more and more to resemble the backdrop of Hunger Games with its behind-the-scenes, Twitter-fueled political manipulation where winners ( or at least the contestants ) are 'chosen' as much by the combatants' skill at jockeying for mass popularity via contrived-for-maximum-public-likability-response as they are for their respective fighting prowess.

    And if the poll I recently ran across ( UFC Tonight?) is any indication, the masses are eating it up. An unbelievable 45% (against Rousey's 55%) of respondents had Tate as the better coach :confused: Not voted the more pleasant (superficially, at least) coach, or least offensive, but the “Better” coach – we've all had coaches, MA instructors, D.I.s, right? We know what makes a coach, then?

    Don't we??

    Those high-priced Madison Ave soothsayers and diviners were right after all, as long as it plays well to an audience, it doesn't matter who does the better job in a given circumstance – they won't remember that in the end.

    I don't know if the 'poll', if there was anything that reflected a true tallying-up to begin with, was being quoted correctly or not; and I wouldn't put it past some to tweak either the numbers or how they were reported if it meant a ratings difference.

    I know its just a show, and have never been quite naïve enough to believe that televised drama ( regardless if its called reality) has ever been anything but staged; but for some reason, reasons I can't really articulate, I'm not keen on this programme anymore – Roxanne Modaferri having been on it, notwithstanding.

    ...and Caligula cast his gaze upon the spectators who filled the coliseum, careful to not misread the mind of the people, as to which Gladiator should live, which Barbarian should die – for this, far and above anything than he could ever do, had the power to anger or to endear, an Emperor to the People of Rome
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  11. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    That's just....I'm sorry, what?! Tate definitely wasn't the better coach in my eyes. At all. But I guess with any opinion poll about people it's more about the personality and looks than anything else. Even with tweaking and manipulative representation of the figures.

    Roxanne was awesome. Most of the people there were alright, but there were definitely some bad apples. Too much focus on blowing little dramas up though and not enough on the training for me, but I still preferred a lot of the elements to this season compared to the Bisping/Miller season. Both of those guys and their stupid pranks and melodrama just got on my nerves.

    Personally I would have liked a different coach other than Meisha Tate but there you go. I was OK with Rousey even with her macho posturing.

    Shortly there after he named his horse Incitatus consul, for indeed he was a genius and a man of the people...

  12. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    A lot of people grossly underestimated Jessica Rakoczy, I'd even go so far as to say Racquel Pennington and her coaches thought it'd be easy. Can't figure out why given her pedigree (8x world champion) and how she TKO'd a vet like Roxanne Modaferri. She gave Pennington & co a boxing lesson.

    I'd like to see Rakoczy win the finale. Julianna Peña is tough but she's a brawler with sloppy technique (common with people who start with MMA instead of a single-focus discipline like boxing or wrestling), so I hope Rakoczy drills the crap out of her TD defence and we get another great boxing display.

    This season of TUF reminded me why I find the ground portion of MMA matches bloody dull (not including big Judo throws and wrestling takedowns).
  13. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    Jessica was awesome, she really was. Everyone in the house was saying that Racquel wasn't fighting properly and she definitely seemed off. But I do think part of that (for me) just looked like she was overwhelmed with Jessica's boxing skills. The way she moved during the fight was pretty damn awesome.

    It is easy to forget that Roxanne is such a hardcore vet though, given the way that Jessica dominated during their fight.

    This :). I was actually watching a series of amateur UK MMA fights last night (already forgotten the organisation, it's a pretty minor one...I'll google it in a bit) and as much of a noob as I am with the MMA stuff, it did come across that the guys from backgrounds like Karate, some with a strong Muay Thai background and the boxers had really interesting, very technical stand up fights. Where as the fighters with a more conventional MMA background basically ran in with fists flailing, looking to take it to the ground straight away and flapping at each other frantically until one or the other finally got the submission.

    Also I got to watch a "Karate-Jutsu" dude beat his opponent standing up and on the ground, which was nice :)

    I used to hate the ground game for a lot of fights - and most of them are dull as hell. Then I watched a few Bantam weight fights, featherweight fights and fighters like GSP and started watching the technical aspects rather than the actual fight itself. Since then I've enjoyed it a lot more, but still most fights when they go to the ground I'm wishing they'd stand back up again.

    Out of Grant Vs Holdsworth, who'd voting for who? I think Holdsworth's JuJutsu background is unfortunately strong and while he's happy to box, he only seems happy as long as the guy he's fighting doesn't hit back all that much. Grant, on the other hand, looked like a solid stand up fighter with ridiculously heavy hands and great cardio.

    I think I have to vote Holdsworth even though I want to vote Grant. He's just such a good grappler technically and so surprisingly agile and determined I think that's going to be a little harder to overcome.
  14. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Holdsworth and Pena. I think Holdsworth's ju jitsu is just too good and I don't think Jessica can do anything once she's off her feet and Pena isn't going to be staying at boxing range like Pennington.
  15. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Holdsworth trains at American Top Team with some elite level fighters in the UFC. Grant drives where he can all over to find various places to train.

    I give the edge to Holdsworth, but it isn't inconceivable that Grant could win.

    Edit- Ooops. I said American Top Team. I was wrong. It is Team Alpha Male. Still a top level fight camp though.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  16. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter


    I dunno. An interview with Pena did not give me any hope for her. She said her game plan was the same it always was- to go in and bring it (paraphrasing,)

    After hearing that, I am giving the edge to Racozky (sp). Pena has heart, but if that is her game plan, it just isn't a smart one against a boxer with Jessica's credentials.
  17. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I reckon my post needs a major re-edit. I agree, Rousey was a better-coach, by far. I was surprised that Tate had received as much as 45% - that was my 'complaint'. Rousey wears her feelings on her sleeve and is often the case with fragile people, trys to bluster through it by hyper-aggressiveness and inappropriately rude behaviour. It belies a soft inner-core. I'm more trusting of the Rouseys than the Tates.

    Contrast that with her opposite - colder, socially-smarter and probably far more cruel when the cameras aren't rolling.

    Ya, Roxanne. I don't think a lot of people realise the amount of work she put in martial arts - a true Traditionalist who studied several arts - taekwondo, Judo, Gracie JJ, a 2002 NAGA Fighter of the Year, the list goes on - long before the buzzword MMA was ever coined. Very bright as well. Not the typical female MMA formula.

    I don't think things will go well for her, this evening. But I hope they do.

    Ya, I'd almost forgotten about his horsey. Early example of rewarding personal favours with political ones
  18. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    It must be tough for all the trailblazers in WMMA who's best days fighting are behind them - just as the UFC starts womens divisions.
  19. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Predictions were all true.

    Peña won by TKO (ground and pound) at 4:59 in R1, overwhelming Rakoczy from the start. A shame really because I always root for the technical fighter over the brawler any day.

    Holdsworth won by RNC in R2. Gutted for Grant.

    Pennington beat Modaferri.

    Can't remember the others.

    At least we have Rousey-Tate 2 to look forward to - anyone think Rousey will pull off her 8th armbar finish in a row? I'm kinda hoping for an upset here.
  20. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Ya, I think it safe to say the armbar thing is down...time to move on to the Kimura for a half-dozen or so.

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