Tuf 5

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Sever, Apr 6, 2007.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Yes, I have to agree that Pulver really showed "class", especially the way the show began with the whole "raise your hand to join Penn" thing. I probably wouldn't have opened up my team to a castoff from the other (especially with such a beginning)... so I can respect that (and that's something from the show I hope people emulate - his class and how he does things)
     
  2. Einstein Mcfly

    Einstein Mcfly New Member

    Last night was the funniest episode I've ever seen. That stupid text-poll question that NO ONE IN THE COUNTRY RESPONDED TO was hilarious. Then that Simms guy goes on about how muy thai is back and strking is back and going to dominate and all that and then goes right out to the middle of the ring AND GETS NAILED BY THE FIRST PUNCH OF THE FIGHT. I must have missed the day in MT class when they showed us how to do that. Not that someone getting nailed in the face and choked out is funny, but if it were, that was it.

    By the way, I have a question to the more experienced/knowledgable guys here: How much does the coaching actually have to do with the performances here? They made it seem in TUF 4 that Shamrock hurt his guys with his training methods and Oritiz really really improved his guys, but they're not saying ANYTHING about this in this episode when it seems clear that Pulver's team is doing much, much better. Is this all 90% what they knew already, luck of the draw, just pure cardio or what? Even the speack White gave to Penn was more about getting on them than training them better, so does anyone have an idea of how much they're actually teaching them?

    Incidentally, as a fan that's one thing I wish they did more on this show was show and explain the different training processes of the different coaches and maybe show a technique or two that we see in the fight. People will be more excited about a sport the more they understand about the details.
     
  3. Apotheosis

    Apotheosis Valued Member

    I have no idea how much the fighters are learning, pretty much impossible to judge and since none of BJ's top fighters dislike him I doubt they will publicly criticize him at this point of the game.

    As to the Hookah, they were likely smoking shisha/sheesha which is essentially flavored tobacco...while it isn't that healthy,multiple studies have shown that smoking the Hookah actually has no increased risk for cancer. Other studies have shown that 45 minutes of Hookah use is about equal to one cigarette, except the lower temperatures cause the tar derivatives to be created at much lower temperatures which decreases the risk of cancer.

    I'm not advocating the use of Hookah's, but they are much safer than cigarettes and in fact pose little long term danger...

    Beer on the other hands...just look at the preview for the next episode for it's dangers.
     
  4. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    I'm neither more experienced or more knowledgable, but I'm getting the impression that BJ isn't as assertive a coach. I think he's there to help those who want to be helped. Pulver, on the other hand, seems to do much more team oriented drilling. Every time you see Pulver's team, you see them ALL doing something, whereas Penn's team is working on individual drills or practice. It was also said by Lauzon that he'd learned a ton from BJ and his coaches.

    And Wang is a loser. The guy's living in a fantasy world and needs to get his head screwed on right.

    Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if the three remaining members of Penn's team make it to the final 4.
     
  5. BigRed389

    BigRed389 Valued Member

    The entire season of TUF runs for 6 weeks.

    During 6 weeks, they go through team selection, the preliminary fights, the semi finals, etc.

    The early fights literally happened a few days after they get there.
    I believe they're 3-4 weeks in now.

    I mean...yeah they get 2 practices a day, for a few hours per session with lots of individual attention...but the prelim fights have shown the results ranging from a few days to ~3 weeks of coaching. I'd say that just makes the case that fighter and fight selection matter most in the prelims...huge difference between Weems and Maynard for example.
     
  6. Apotheosis

    Apotheosis Valued Member

    So this weeks episode saw Marlon Sims get drunk and fight with Noah..

    Marlon was talking about how tough he was since he would never tap and Noah is a little sissy for tapping out to avoid getting his arm broken...Noah then responded and eventually they end up fighting.

    Most of the fighters were just watching them but I didn't see all the fighters there(some may have been sleeping or whatever), Lobster and others were egging them on...

    Dana was of course quite upset as he has been trying to portray this as a sport and not some brutal street fight, he had/has a great point as they certainly acted like thugs not athletes. He ended up kicking Noah, Marlon and Lobster out of the house.

    The coaches and Dana select the next round of fights, BJ and Dana both agreeing that Gray Meynard, Wiman, Lauzon and Diaz are the 4 favorites and should be saved to fight each other in the next round.

    Maynard gets Melendez
    Wiman gets Manny
    Lauzon gets Miller
    Corey gets Diaz

    This week Lauzon vs Miller was the fight, both good on the ground and decent on the feet.

    Fight starts off with Lauzon going for a single leg and Miller escaping...Cole managed to sink in a RNC and had the hooks in but Lauzon escaped well. Lauzon ended up on top and threw bombs the rest of the round but Miller was very active from his guard going for numerous submissions.

    Joe takes the first round

    Second round both come out guns blazing and Lauzon manages to take Cole down, Joe ends up in a form of side control and in the process of his GnP he lands a nasty elbow to the back of Cole's head that obviously stuns Cole. The ref stops the fight, takes a point from Joe and gives Cole some time to recuperate. It is pretty obvious Cole is not "ok" but he wants to fight on, Joe comes out trying to end the fight as he doesn't want to go to a 3rd round and ends up taking Cole's back throwing numerous punches to the side of Cole's head until Mazzagati stops the fight.

    After the fight Joe apologizes for the blow to the back of the head, Cole accepts the loss and isn't "angry" so much as disappointed as he stated he wished they could have found out who the best fighter was without the illegal blow and he hopes he gets a second chance to fight Joe. Dana really liked Cole(and Joe for apologizing) and certainly gave the impression that he will have plenty of more chances...he also told Cole that next time he should never fight if he is that hurt(easy to say when you are not a young fighter trying to get a contract and earn the boss' approval). Cole gets helped into the ambulance(having trouble walking) and the show ends.
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Nice summary above!!!

    I liked the fight this week and bet we'll see Cole again. Lauzon has become my pick to win it all though!!!

    The whole fight at the house was pretty pathetic and I agree with Dana's rant about the image it presents. Sure, it helps ratings but it's a bad image for the UFC - I think he was right in kicking those guys off (we'll see though if they tunr up on PPVs or Ultimate Fight Nights how serious he was).
     
  8. spirez

    spirez Valued Member

    I don't see why they should show up in future events, there is enough talent out there and these three were **** to be honest.
     
  9. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    According to Spike TV via MMAWeekly, Marlon and Noah (the two muppets booted off the show after the fight) are getting the chance to finish this in the Octagon, opening up the finale show
    Source
    The UFC really don't do their credibility any favours with stuff like this
     
  10. Apotheosis

    Apotheosis Valued Member

    Yea I cannot believe Dana didn't just blacklist these guys for a year or two
     
  11. Apotheosis

    Apotheosis Valued Member

    This week we have Maynard vs Melendez.

    For the first 20 minutes we hear Melendez whining, complaining, we even see some tears, all of this as a result of him wanting to take it easy before the fight. He was way to dramatic, he and Pulver argued and yelled but don't fret because they got on the same page and love each other again.

    Couture shows up to help train Maynard as he apparently trains in Vegas with Randy, everyone is excited...we see Maynard working hard, the day of the fight we see him jogging down the Vegas streets in a sweat suit. After that we hear BJ say he thinks Maynard is really overtraining, which I have to agree based on my expert analysis of the 30 minute peek into the week of training.

    The fight starts, Maynard quickly shows off his great wrestling and takes Melendez down. Maynard takes Melendez' back, looks for a RNC but you can tell he is new to BJJ and Melendez' escapes back to his feet. The entire first round consists of Maynard getting the takedown and then Melendez getting back to his feet, throwing some nice punches and then repeat.

    Second round Maynard is gassed but still manages to take him down, Melendez manages to land some nice punches in between the takedowns but he is gassing as well. Maynard goes into "survival mode" and gets a takedown and then ends the fight with 30 seconds or so left(I think) with a guillotine.

    It was a good fight, Melendez did a good job getting back to his feet but he just couldn't keep Maynard from taking him down. Maynard has great wrestling but needs to work on his ground control and what to do once he gets his opponent down.
     
  12. duderanch182

    duderanch182 Bored Thaiboxer

    The fight was pretty good and maynard looks good but after that fight I really beleive that Joe Lauzon will win the show as he seems to have good energy and his gnp is amazing.

    Melendez's whining got on my nerves and I felt that Pulver is really trying to look out for these guys. Melendez should listen to pulver as he has got a lot experience and could learn so much.

    Also I think Nate Diaz is a loser after the way he treated Cole and seems just like a Bully and always wants to remain one up on Cole. Cole was just very cool and laughed about everything and I think that annoyed Nate more, I would love to see Cole vs Nate is the Octagon and have Cole win.
     
  13. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    Looks like the UFC used some brain power and have told Spike TV that the Marlon/ Noah fight isn't happening at the finale or ever
    Source
     
  14. Apotheosis

    Apotheosis Valued Member

    This episode we have Nate Diaz vs Corey Hill and Matt Wiman vs Manny Gamburyan(sp?).

    First up, Nate goes to train with BJ as well as with Pulver...on the other side while Corey is sitting in the sauna we learn he has an alter ego that talks to him when he needs support and coaching...

    Round 1- Nate comes out going for the takedown but Corey is looking improved on his striking. Corey still bends over and keeps his front foot out but lucky for him Diaz looked very sloppy on his feet.

    Diaz repeatedly went for the takedown and Corey repeatedly stuffed them, in fact he on a couple occasions just threw Nate away from him.

    Corey gets overconfident, takes Diaz down and gets caught in a guillotine that Diaz uses to set up a triangle.

    Corey taps out 2-3 minutes into the first round, Diaz looked pretty good on the ground but his takedowns were pretty bad and he had sloppy striking.


    Next up we have Wiman vs Manny, Manny gets a boost from his cousin Karo showing up and training with him.

    Round 1- Wiman planned to use a jab but quickly failed to do so and got taken down by Manny. Once down he couldn't get up, Manny cut him open with a nice elbow.

    It really looks like Wiman has nothing for Manny once he is on his back and the round consists of him on his back getting pounded...it got stood up once but he quickly got taken down again.

    Round 2- BJ lets Matt know that he needs to win this round and Matt lands a couple nice punches before getting the takedown. He goes for Manny's back but missed and ends up on his back once more.

    Just like last round, he was clueless and didn't even seem to try to sweep or go for submissions.

    The fight ends with Manny getting the unanimous decision victory.

    I'm not sure which pre-fight comment was crazier, Wiman saying that God would not let him lose or Dana saying that Manny is way to small and that he will have a hard time dealing with the "more powerful guys like Wiman".

    Manny is a beast, the only person with a shot of beating him is Maynard with his takedowns but even then I'm not very confident.

    I think Wiman should still be in the tournament, I'm pretty confident he would beat Nate and possibly Joe.

    However we have these 4 fighters left

    Joe Lauzon
    Grey Maynard
    Manny Gamburyan
    Nate Diaz

    Nate has good BJJ but I'm not sure if he can deal with Maynard or Manny's superior strength and power...the same goes for Joe.

    My pick is Manny, he has the grappling to beat Grey as well as a lot more power and at least equal grappling to Nate&Joe
     
  15. Linguo

    Linguo Valued Member

    Seriously, Corey Hill's wrestling was pretty impressive. Lauzon mentioned in his blog that Corey has really strong wrestling, but we didn't get to really see it in Corey's fight with Emerson. Last night showed Corey's tremendous potential. Corey's attitude was nice to see to. I loved that, even though he lost, he left the ring smiling. That's just pure awesome.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2007
  16. bujingodai

    bujingodai Retired Supporter

    I for one at the start of the show could not stand Corey, but he turned me around. He is just a little quirky. But much improved, he took the loss like a man. It's OK he could see how much he was flinging Nate around. Personally I think Diaz is a bit of a dink. He should try and sound a little less stoned.

    I was impressed with Maynard/Melendez fight last week BTW

    As for Wiman and Manny, I loved it. Manny is the man. 5 '5" a raw aggression and devotion. I really liked Wiman til he was ****ing and moaning after the fight and going on that if they fought 10 times he'd win more. Dude take your lumps admit Manny is a great fighter and deal with it. You were at least bested by someone with obvious skill

    In the end of it all it will be Lauzon and Manny, IMO. Manny will take it all.

    I am looking forward to next week to see Karo and Diaz at each other.
     
  17. pauli

    pauli mr guillotine

    yes, that's what we need. more assinine chest thumping.
     
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I liked the episode and enjoyed the fights. Corey Hill has come a long way and I have to admit that I was cheering him on in the fight (from my comfy chair that is). His fight was good and like they told him after, he "didn't lose anything"... I think his work ethic, his heart and his hard work will get him invited back to the UFC. I'd like to see him in the cage again.

    I was rooting for Manny as well, I loved his first fight and love his energy. It's a bit crazy that he's considered too small (because the other guys are huge and cut so much to fit the weight). So, I wanted him to win and was pleased with his fight.

    Good stuff so far!
     
  19. Apotheosis

    Apotheosis Valued Member

    The guy is probably one of the biggest fighters on the show, short but he is built like a brick house.
     
  20. Apotheosis

    Apotheosis Valued Member

    I think he is being a bit harsh, saying they will NEVER fight in the UFC?

    I can understand keeping them out for a year or so but why ban them as opposed to cheaters, criminals etc...?
     

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