Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Sandninjer, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. Sandninjer

    Sandninjer Valued Member

    Has anyone purchased anything from there? I bought a few things from there and even dropped a couple hundred on a katana. One day, I decided to test the katana's durability and tried to cut through a 2" thick tree branch, a single vertical slash, and while it cut into it, the blade was slightly bent out of shape. The blade is razor sharp to the point where if you even just tap the sharp side, you'll cut your finger. So is that the fault of the katana's quality? A fault of mine? Have you purchased anything from this site and experienced poor quality?
  2. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Talk to your teacher.

    The website doesn't inspire confidence but based on what you've said above I think you should discuss this with whoever you are studying under.
  3. Nojon

    Nojon Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein

    Hope you didnt spend too much, theres alot of garbage/fantasy stuff on there.
  4. Kenko Enso

    Kenko Enso Valued Member

    There's a lot of variables when it comes to cutting. It's possible to chip/warp a great blade if your cutting technique isn't up to par. What sword was it?

    Also the sharpness of a blade doesn't mean that it can handle a hard target very well. Some blades can be "too sharp" and this will cause them to easily chip. These types of swords are usually seen among lower priced blades.
  5. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Maybe try these guys next time. I've known about them for about 15 years, even visited their shop once. Their swords are made to be used. Prices start at $200.
  6. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member


    Bugei are well known but really you need to follow the guidance of your teacher.

    The Genbukan may have certain requirements for weapons.
  7. Sandninjer

    Sandninjer Valued Member

    Thanks guys. And Dean, that's a good point. I actually purchased it way before the thought of even learning ninjutsu was an idea. I'll just keep it as a decoration piece (well... not like I'd have any other use for it any way) :ninja1:
  8. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    a katana will bend if it's used as an axe. There is a reason why people invented katanas for cutting FLESH and axes for cutting WOOD.

    I'll not start calling you names, though, you're only victim to the Asian-ninja-samurai mytos, where one of the sub-myths is the fact that all Abraham tanks should rather have a katana mounted than the smooth-bore 120mm gun...
  9. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Could be the sword, but a bent blade is quite likely to be your cutting technique. You may have the blade not perpendicular to the target, for instance. Sounds like it would be something pretty easy, but it isn't...this would be made worse if you "chopped" at it rather than "cut" it.
  10. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank


    How so? What has he done to make you think that?
  11. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    I suspect you don't have a sword. You have a sword shaped object. Sharpness is not an indicator of quality. I can sharpen a spoon to the point where I can shave with it, but it will still be inferior steel that would bend. Technique is important, but I doubt you have a properly constructed and hardened sword.
    Do not use anything for cutting if you don't know for sure it is a good sword.

    I just looked.
    These swords are complete crap. Anyone claiming to sell a 'sword' for those ridiculously low prices should not be trusted.
    A simple spyderco knife cost more than that. And somehow, they are able to forge a sword, heat treat it, sharpen and finish it, and then sell it for 80$ while still allowing the reseller to make a 30% markup?

    The raw materials (steel and the material of the fittings) would cost more than that.

    If you actually use one of those things to cut for real, you are setting yourself up for a darwin award.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  12. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    Yes, they do. :)
    In all things related to Genbukan, you should follow the advice of your teacher.
  13. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    How is the best way to find out if your sword is any good then? I picked up my first live katana at Christmas, while I got it with a hefty discount they were usually selling it for about £250.

    Mostly I just use it for single person kata work, but have been tempted to try cutting - to make sure I can use it in the inevitable zombie apocalypse.

    But naturally I don't want to ruin the sword if its not really suitable for cutting with. (I also don't want to ruin it by trying to cutting actual objects before my technique is right =p)

    edit - mine wasn't from trueswords =p
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Really you should ask your teacher, if your teacher doesnt know, then you and your teacher shouldnt be playing about with things you have no knowledge in.

    Short answer
    What steel is it, is it heat treated, how long is the tang, are there two pegs in the handle.

    stay away from 440 stainless its brittle.
    full length tang always
    Anything newly made should have two pegs in the handle.
    If it doesnt have two pegs, always check the peg before practise.

    And for 250 uk pounds I wouldnt even think about using it for solo practise nevermind cutting.
  15. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    You study under someone who knows what they are talking about, that means finding a qualified teacher.

    Don't try cutting unless someone has taken you through what to do, if you don't have guidance there's a risk of knackering your blade or cutting your own leg off!
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Tried to cut a two inch thick piece of green wood.
  17. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    It does have 2 Pegs, and while I've not yet tried taking the katana apart, the guy in the shop said it was a full tang blade.

    We don't do actual cutting where I train, just the katas, which its proved fine for thus far. I am interested in learning how to cut properly, and wasn't planning on doing so without proper tuition, but thought it best to check the suitability of my blade before looking into it overly much. This seemed like a good thread to ask about it in as it'd popped up ^_^
  18. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    If you want to know, there are a couple of things.

    1) it should not be stainless at all. Stainless is always crap except for a couple of high end steels, and you'd know it in that case because you'd have paid quite a sum of money. Obviously there should be no chrome either.
    2) any properly created sword should be able to be taken apart. carefully tap out the mekugi pin and remove the tsuka. Is there a proper tang?
    3) if you have the sword completely stripped of tsuka, tsuba and the rest, hold it by the tang between 2 fingers, and tap it with your ring. Does it ring or is it a dull twack. A crisp ring indicates properly hardened steel. the chime does not have to last, but it is more a matter of whether a clear note is produced or not.
    4)if you really want to know, take a file and gently file on the blade surface near the cutting edge (not on the edge itself of course) If the file 'bites' the steel, it means the steel is not properly hardened. A good sword is differentially hardened and will be hard enough near the edge that a file should skate off like a knife off glass.
    5) Another dead giveaway is of the hamon is etched on instead of a result of heat treatment. An etched hamon is always a sign of a dud sword.

    I'm be able to infer a lot more things when I hold it in my hands, but the above things are easy enough to check even if you have no knowledge of metallurgy or knifemaking. (I'm a knife smith).

    Now, prices are of course depending on where the sword was made. Manual labor in China does not have to cost anything. But if the reseller takes 30$, that would leave 50$ to turn >50$ of materials into a 50$ sword :) The math doesn't work out. This is really one of those things where if it sounds to good to be true, it is.

    It is of course possible to make a decent, cheap sword. Like this one for example:
    But you'll note that they also mention that they use cheap yet durable materials for the fittings. That's the only way to make a 200$ sword and still make a bit of profit. And of course, it is not handforged, and I also would not use if for cutting practice on wood. There are swords that can cut through 2 inches of dried oak without damage. A 200$ sword is not one of them.

    If you want a sword that is in reality like what trueswords claims to sell, then you get to the 600+ range.
    And even that is just a mass produced sword. Hand forged in this context probably means something else than it would mean if you asked a smith. But that will be a properly constructed sword, using proper materials for fittings, and as a result you get closer to 1000$ immediately.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  19. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    I might dig up a guide on how to take my katana apart and set myself a little project for Sunday then ^_^

    One of the 6th Dans is a big Sword enthusiast (trains with a £5k sword with custom fittings =D), and I'll be seeing him tomorrow afternoon for a kobudo session, so I'll have my sword with me, so I might see if he'll have a look at it for me.
  20. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Even that sounds rather unwise. Are you sure you want to practice with a live blade?

    Which kata btw?
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013

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