True Story Regarding A "Reality Based" SD Course

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by cxw, Sep 11, 2004.

  1. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    In that case, probably the most useful piece of advice is 'I'm sorry, to be any good at fighting you are going to have to practice it quite a lot'- repeated again and again for two hours?
     
  2. RichieRich

    RichieRich Valued Member

    I think teaching to shout, run, resist, bite and to have a gameplan before hand would be 2 hours well spent.
     
  3. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    I'm going to move this thread over to the Women's Self-Defense sub-form ...

    There is another thread there http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6529

    Here in this thread we discussed how to structure a womens self defense course, which takes into consideration many of these practices to teach women
     
  4. kiaiki

    kiaiki Valued Member

    No, public humiliation is never aceptable. I've seen some men on the receiving end too: after a few months of MA some of them couldn't help the 'go on, punch me' test- the last one I saw was really funny as he picked a Shotokan Karate exponent. They didn't deserve public humiliation either, just a few quiet words about realism, maybe backed up with a private session or an intro to a better club.

    Self Defence for Women? I have 2 daughters (18 and 22) and they have been trained by me and by others. Here in the UK each city and county has its own policy on this. There are some police forces who do not support short self defence courses for women for precisely the reason shown above - they may build too much confidence and too little skill to be useful. It's also a market that is wide open to total charlatans.

    Our own (UKMAF) self defence course contained a few 'nasties' that would deal with most men if properly delivered, but it's sad that in the UK a woman who blinds or cripples a man to protect against rape may be deemed to have used excessive force unless the man was going to severely injure or kill her (as if she'd know!). Our police may arrest and charge her. If she has been 'trained' a court may assume that she should be calm enough to act within the law and skilled enough be controlled. Yes, few of our courts know enough to separate a beginner from a BB - admit you study a martial art and it will almost always be used against you.

    On balance I would sooner train women than not, but I now advocate it as part of a package of 'streetwise' stuff, including info/advice on avoiding date rape drugs etc.

    Both of my daughters study in Leeds, a city with plenty of street violence. I think they should ALL (boys and girls) receive some SD traning as part of their 'fresher's week'.

    Let's risk the odd case of over-confidence for the good of the many. I have first hand experience that rapid training properly remembered really works. I took 16 UK students on a tour of India. The girls were getting a lot of groping and unwanted attention from Indian males. A few short lessons later and the next groper got very badly crunched wrist bones (grabbed a breast, got an aikido nikkajo wrist lock). Maybe an over-reaction, but this time HE got the VERY PUBLIC humiliation. Now that's more like it... :)
     
  5. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member


    That'll be the day when a would-be groper thinks twice before acting on his impulse!

    Hope I live to see it! :Angel:
     
  6. kiaiki

    kiaiki Valued Member

    I can't wait for the day when our dear old London Underground during rush hour is filled with the sounds of pain as the gropers and pickpockets get their bones crunched.

    India was very unusual. In the last few years these guys, who may get beaten to death for groping a local Hindu girl, have been conned by satellite TV (yep, even in poor villages) into believing western girls positively welcome direct sexual advances. MTV and the Fashion Channel are their soft porn channels. Hey, doesn't that mean you yanks are to blame?? :)
     
  7. cxw

    cxw Valued Member

    Fair point. Maybe I should have done it privately? My aim was to make her realise she got ripped off - and not to take shortcuts home at night etc. Maybe I didn't go about it the right way.
     
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    My worry is basically that you start with someone who's obviously feeling vulnerable (which is presumably why she signed up for the class) and make her feel foolish. And still vulnerable.

    Yeah, I think that sort of thing is best done in private. Apart from anything else, if you attack what she's done, she'll fight back. So now she's more wed to this lackluster self defense thing and less inclined to listen to anything else you have to say.

    That's my take anyway.


    Stuart
     
  9. cxw

    cxw Valued Member

    Ok - I could've done things better. At the time I thought it was the best thing to do. The aim was not to embarass her.

    I did mention at the end that there are crime prevention type courses around that will probably give useful information regarding avoidance.

    At the end of the day, it's not me that was ripping people off.
     
  10. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I hear ya. I don't mean to be passing judgment. I can't promise I'd have handled it any more gracefully myself.

    How'd she take it?

    Amen!


    Stuart
     
  11. RichieRich

    RichieRich Valued Member

    I don't want to get in trouble (again) - but you'd feel worse if she'd gone out over confident and paid a price. But as Stuart says, there are ways and means.
     
  12. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    That's an excellent point though. A harsh eye opener beats having the course fail when she's actually being attacked.
     
  13. cxw

    cxw Valued Member

    That was the aim.

    This was 4 years ago. I'm quite a bit more mature now and would handle things different. I'm feeling a little bit bad after reading the posts.
     
  14. RichieRich

    RichieRich Valued Member


    *RichieRich pelts cxw with rotten fruit* :p
     
  15. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    I know that it was a minimal improvement as far as self defense goes, but it was still better then nothing. And criminals really are oportunistic. I can travel realatively unmolested based on how I carry myself alone. I don't need to carry a neon sign that states "I am a MAist and will rip out your throat if you look at me wrong". Ok, I exagerate. But you get the gist. I am left alone because I walk upright and observe the people around me.
    My main concern is if she was then too embarassed to ever go into a "real" self defense course. It is so easy to scare women away from these courses and many would rather not ever prepare for an attack. Its sort of a "if you don't see it, its not there" type reaction. When you are trying to get women into these classes, especially older women who have been told that it is unlady-like to get yourself all mussy in a fight, you really have to walk a delicate balance. You want them to leave with useful skills and confidence, but you can't scare them away by being too agressive, either. And just try to get them on the ground. It is a very hard tight-rope to walk and it is made even harder by outside and thoughtless (though well-meaning) occurances such as you described.
    Ok, ok... no more soapbox. Though I can't promise that I will stay off of it for an extended period of time. :)
     
  16. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Well, I think Richie Rich has an excellent point. You may not have handled it perfectly. But you were trying to spare her something worse down the road. And that's obviously a good thing in the long run. I have to respect the motive. Delivery is something that gets better with practice.

    (I think part of why this strikes home with me is that I did something very similar myself as part of a self-defense course I assisted with in college. I even undermined the instructor in front of her students. And that was a stupid thing for me to do. Part of this is my regrets spilling over, I'm sure.)


    Stuart
     
  17. cybermonk

    cybermonk New Member


    Dont worry about it guys, I am embarassed to say this but our grandmaster challenged the police department's defence instructor in front of the whole class when he was a cop and beat him. I can honestly say that I would have done it very very differently and when we spoke about it he said something along the lines of "yes, I would too, but things just dont happen like we want them to sometimes." Sometimes we do things because we think they are going to help people but in the end it doesnt turn out as well as we want them to. :Angel:
     
  18. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Well said.
     
  19. KungFuGirl

    KungFuGirl Valued Member

    I also think this guy was wrong in the way he treated his co-worker.

    You don't teach a grade 2 student math by yelling at him and calling his stupid everytime he gets an answer wrong, do you?


    Also, it is not entirely her fault. I've seen many cases in class where the guy just falls how he is suposed to. I think that's stupid. I don't want anyone to just "fall" for me (lol double meaning).

    It's like those people in class that don't really "punch" when your sparring. It prevents you from learning the blocks properly. I know this girl who's blocks are TERRIBLE but everyone just kind of stops their punches for her. It's stupid because here she is thinking she knows how to block when really I can collapse all her blocks so easily and we are the same size.

    Okay I'm done ranting now.
     
  20. juan ramirez

    juan ramirez New Member

    the real deal

    the average woman has no chance against a typical rapist.
    lets not even pretend rapists are average men.
    he wont have the inhibitions of an average man, he doesnt care if he hurts you!
    rapists are typicaly violent. agressive. cunning,strong, fast, and armed. They attack victims at their weakest moments. hollywood likes to portray them as thugish and stupid..WRONG! they are often very charming and intelligent/the perfect man/Thats why they succeed!
    here are some REAl tips
    Know that you are weak..YES you are weak.
    Park as close to your work as possible, with your freinds in a well lit area and come and go in groups.
    avoid suspect areas
    suspect all areas
    NEVER confront suspect individuals..leave and.get help.
    practice situational awarness. Look out your office window and scan the lot before you even leave the building.
    get an escort when ever possible
    if you go to work in a suit. carry a pair of old jeans, old t shirt, an old hoody, and a pair of tennis shoes or light hiking boots,, change before you leave the office. you wont draw as much attention and you can run in these clothes. running in a skirt and pumps, doesnt work!
    carry pepper spray, order the pepper spray used for bears. look it up on the internet.
    REMEMBER the best defense is to avoid the situation. if you fully understand the reality of your situation you wont be so cavalier and youll realize there isnt a karate chop in the world that will save you. only your brain will. master your mind and you will be a true martial artist.
     

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