True Story Regarding A "Reality Based" SD Course

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by cxw, Sep 11, 2004.

  1. cxw

    cxw Valued Member

    I just thought I'd post a true story about one of those 2 hour RBSD courses.

    Around 4 years ago, an email went around my work place about a 2 hour womens self defense course. The email contained the magical word "black belt" regarding the instructor. Anyhow, around 8 middle class women who clearly had never been in alteraction (or quite possibly never even seen one) went on the course.

    The next day this women (lets call her P) started telling how she could now defend herself "against any man". Another workmate (call him R) I've mine started moking her. Now, I got off my computer and worked over to them "yes R, if you don't stop she'll give you a tremendous beating" and said "I believe you P, I think you're just like Mike Tyson". She gave me a look of disgust. Me: "No, I think you are. If R sneaks up to you and hits you in the teeth with a hammer, first you'll laugh for such a pathetic attempt to take you out, then you'll destroy him".

    Then I said "but seriously, word it work against Mike Tyson?" - it then turned into being able to defend herself against any ordinary man. I then asked about above ordinary men, it then turned into most men, excluding highly trained men.

    I then guessed her weight at 60kg (132 pounds), this offended her as she said she was only 48 kg (106 pounds), I then said "so you dainty, but also extremely powerful", then she said that strength doesn't matter.

    At this point logic wasn't going anywhere, so I said "am I an ordinary man". And she said "yes". I replied with "why do you want to defend yourself against an ordinary man?" P: "Because I don't want to get raped". Me:"So you're calling me a rapist". P: "No, but if you were". Me:"Well let's show us your moves karate kid". P:"I don't want to hurt you". Me:"I''ll be ok". So then I get told to position behind her and put my arms around her so can should throw me. First attempt, I pull my arm away, I'm told that I'm cheating. Me:"There are no rules in real life, ok I won't pull my arms away", then whilst she's trying to throw me I pinch her left ear. Now the 3rd time I let her try and throw me, after about 20 seconds I push onto the ground.

    Then she says how much rougher she'll be in real life. I say, go on knee me in the groin. So she throws a set of pathetic knees which I easily block.

    I then say "give up, you can't even compete against an untrained, unfit, underweight 72kg guy, how are you going to go against a trained heavy weight?". Even then she was still in denial, I think after a few days logic kicked in and she realised she'd been had.

    How gulligle are some people to believing you can get the earth for a penny?

    PS. I have some magic beans to sell if anybody is interesed?
  2. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Unfortunately there is good money to be made in the false sense of security market.

    Many people do not truly want to learn to fight. They just want to be told they can fight.
  3. RichieRich

    RichieRich Valued Member

    People are always looking for miracle quick-fixes - self defense, money making, diets...

    Most things worth doing require time and effort.
  4. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Indeed they do.

    Sadly, we live in a quick fix society.
  5. sky

    sky Valued Member

    Because these methods work during traing, whilst there training partner stood in the correct position, and like you said never pinched her ear and so on, she may think she can defend herself against average joe but in actual fact she has no idea about a real scenario. As for the the trained heavy weight, if hes a real martial artist and dicsaplines, he would attack a lonley woman
  6. Mrs Owt

    Mrs Owt New Member

    I've seen this far too many times. Instructors teaching "self defence" when they haven't been in so much as a school yard fight themselves and are only going on what they have read about such events. Or the instructors teaching any sort of MA technique that they have never actually trained in but did a weekend seminar or, worse yet, watched some videos.

    In the beginning of your post you said it had the magical words "black belt" in description of the instructor - that is all it takes. If we are all honest we probably all know of an instructor who attained their BB in one art but now wear it teaching something totally different because it is more marketable. Now it is fashionable to teach anti-terrorist courses, got a BB? Go for it, doesn't matter if you have only trained in ImaginaRyu.
  7. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    First of all a 2 hour womens self defense course is NOT going to instill even the basic BASICS it takes to defend oneself against an attacker... at most it will make the woman more aware of the need to train to learn the basics and train consistently so that is becomes second nature. Sometimes these 2 hr. courses are a tease in order to try to get women to sign on for longer.... and if not and they guarantee that you will learn all that you need to know to defend yourself from a possible attack, than they are indeed doing a disservice.

    I have been involved in several womens SD classes ... one that I assisted in teaching at our school. (... and I've never been in a school yard fight ;) )
    It was a 4 week/bi weekly class, that mainly taught awareness and VERY BASIC self defense techniques.... where & how to strike, what to do when taken to the ground or grabbed from behind, etc....

    Personally I feel training consistently and keeping oneself physically fit to be able to defend oneself (even if it means running) would give you a far better advantage to defend yourself.

    Most of the women who came to these classes were overweight, and totally clueless and unaggressive ... by the end of the classes they knew they needed to get in-shape, gained some awareness skills and learned to express themselves more outwardly than they did the first class. Many decided to begin martial art training.

    I have "sat in" on several of these 2 hr women's SD programs given at our local community center. The teachers were lower black belt ranks than me.
    I didn't let on that I was formally trained and had them "teach" me.
    They sure were surprised when I knocked one of then clear n theiir **** when asked to "try" and kick the target they were holding.
    It was truly a joke .... and I more or less expressed my concern with them following the program only to be told that they felt learning "something" was better than "nothing" .... no?
  8. RichieRich

    RichieRich Valued Member

    I think in 2 hours you could attain knowledge and situational awareness that might save you. Knowing to be vocal, etc...
  9. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter


    I've taught corporate 2 hour "self defence" courses. The first thing I say is that there will be NO hands on trainig and NO martial arts in this 2 hours - we don't have time.

    2 Hours gives JUST enough time to discuss general awareness and avoidance, non-verbal communication, management of aggressive behaviour etc.
  10. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    Would it be useful to give a few pointers as to working out though- how to shadowbox, hit the bag, good running and weightlifting practice (i.e. HIIT, compound movements) etc. though?
  11. cybermonk

    cybermonk New Member

    People get too hung up in the "self defence" aspect of martial arts. Most schools I have been involved with put emphasis on that they are teaching you how to fight, NOT self defence, which I think is the way to go. The most effective self defence techniques are the ones that dont involve fighting and as such I see no need to add any "martial arts training" in a 2 hour self defence course.
  12. Taeho

    Taeho New Member

    The only possible benefit to these 2 hours classes is to POSSIBLY give the woman a feeling of self confidence to walk a little differently, hold her head ever so slightly in a more confident manner and MAYBE just maybe a would be attacker might let her walk on by. If they were actually attacked, they would never remember a single thing they were "taught".

    Otherwise as KC said, "at most it will make the woman more aware of the need to train to learn the basics and train consistently so that is becomes second nature."

  13. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    I think that the only thing of value that comes from those classes is the sense that a woman can defend herself. If that translates into a different posture and way of walking, that is. Muggers and rapists are predators, and predators choose the weak of the herd, not the strong. Sometimes, its not that you're strong, its that you seem strong. So, in effect, even though she couldn't defend herself in an office where she knows nothing bad could ever happen to her, you have taken away what little she gained from the course. That said, I hate those two hour courses and think them highly unresponsible and that they can take a woman's health and life into serious jepardy, if the instructor is not careful about what is being taught.
  14. E-Rocker

    E-Rocker Valued Member

    My biggest issue with self-defense is people who think that you can just kick or knee the groin and you don't need to know anything else. Men are hard-wired to protect the groin and landing that kick or knee could be a lot harder than you think.

    IMHO, best defense is to not be there in the first place.
  15. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    The above material isn't RBSD. In fact it's just about the opposite of it. As Yoda put it, a reputable 2 hour course focuses on awareness and verbal skills.

    It might have been a self defense course, but please don't confuse it with the material taught by people like Tony Blauer, Geoff Thompson and others.

    And the above example shouldn't be used to discredit the value of a good RBSD program. No more so than a Mc Dojo should be used to discredit a classical martial art or a poor brawler be used to discredit MMA.

    - Matt
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2004
  16. E-Rocker

    E-Rocker Valued Member

    I think you meant "shouldn't," not should.
  17. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Correct, and I'm correcting the original post. That'll teach me to post while packing!

    - Matt
  18. cxw

    cxw Valued Member

    At the time that didn't occur to me that the false sense of security would make her seem less of a target.

    On the other hand, what if her false sense of security meant she took a shortcut home at night and got attacked? Perhaps it meant the next time somebody tried to rip her off, she would be more critical of what's given to her?

    As Yoda wrote, a good SD course is about awareness, avoidance, body language etc - who's actually better at self defense? a) the person who's been attacked 1000 times, and 999 times has gotten out of the situation alright. Or b) the person who has never been attacked.
  19. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Good question. But do you really think that humiliating her in front of a coworker for believing something she was told by an authority is the way to help her? Or were you trying to help her?

    She had no idea what she was doing. And someone who presented himself as an authority told her what to do. The woman was basically taken advantage of by a charlatan. And (if this exchange went down the way you describe) you disabused her of her notions in the harshest way possible.

    If I were her, I'd be feeling helpless and stupid right around now. And I have a really hard time believing that's the way to get her on the right track.

  20. RichieRich

    RichieRich Valued Member

    Thats a bit ambitious, they only have 2 hours and are unlikely to practice anything, otherwise they'd take up an MA.

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