Trivia Villari question

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by meijin10, Mar 31, 2006.

  1. meijin10

    meijin10 Valued Member

    Who knows the real connection between Fred Villari and L.Mangone? :confused:
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2006
  2. kickingfist

    kickingfist New Member

    I dont know the real connection between them. If you look on their web site www.ussd.com you can download the state of the arts artical where mattera states he was taught by a brown belt from nick cerios larry mangon.

    The funny thing is he also says there are only two ways to get promoted 1 from hard work the other to add a stripe on your belt.
     
  3. meijin10

    meijin10 Valued Member

    I am surprized that no one has answered this trivia question. Anyone who really was in Fred Villari's or Nick Cerio's inner circle will know the answer.
    It is a little funny. :rolleyes:
     
  4. fightingninja2

    fightingninja2 New Member

    Ask pro joe, He would know.

    Sir why did you leave villaris?
     
  5. meijin10

    meijin10 Valued Member

    Anawer

    Answer:
    L.Mangone and Fred V. worked together for the Polaroid Corporation. L.Mangone was an engineer there and Fred V. was an assistant to the engineers or what you could call a Go-For. :cool:
     
  6. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    Hey, Al C., just caught your post, decided to move on from the other stuff, lol. Polaroid in Waltham, Ma., I do remember that and if my memory serves me correctly Art Singer worked there too. They used to train outside on one of the flat top roofs in the hot summer days at Polaroid. In all due respect, I wouldn't call Fred V. a Go-For......whether someone likes him or not, if weren't for him, we wouldn't be conversing here now. I may not have agreed with everything he did, nothing personal, that's why I went independant, my perrogative, BUT I still give credit to my roots and no matter who we studied under later or how we wish to cut it, our direct lineage remains the same: Mitose-Chow-Emperado-Leoning-Gascon-Pesare-Cerio-Villari. I just call it like I see it. With respect, "Joe"
     
  7. meijin10

    meijin10 Valued Member

    Joe,
    The Go-For is no sign of disrespect, his seniors used to pull his chain with that. I personally saw Larry and Art say that to Fred direct. All of his seniors had their own nick names as well, some good some bad.
    Don't be so sensitive Joe. :cool:
    Al C.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2006
  8. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    No problem, my friend, yes, I do get a little sensitive at times,lol, but here's why. I left Gm. Villari in '81 as I explained respectfully in a post on this forum when asked but there was a time I was a little 'insensitive' about things in the sense I lashed out a bit, as we all have, when we don't agree with the direction an organization we belonged to is heading in. Please allow me to elaborate.

    Over the years, I thought about things along with a conversation I had with Prof. Cerio. He told me you should always respect who gave you your foundation in the martial arts. I always credited Hanshi Craig Seavey (currently co-head of NCK) who back then was with Mr. V. and groomed me to Black Belt, he sponsered me for the 8-hour test (1977). GM. Villari tested me and I also attended his black belt workouts after that. Mr. Cerio reminded me that it was Fred Villari that made it all possible for me to be where I am today. He was responsible in a major way along with Mr. Seavey as far as giving me my 'identity' in Kempo. Some may read this and say Nick Cerio was a hypocrit because he had a disagreement with SGM. S. George Pesare at one time and seemed to have cut him out of his lineage. Well, this came up also and Prof. Cerio told me he regretted that for it was George Pesare who gave him his 'identity'. Prof. Cerio and SGM. Pesare got back together again and right until the time of his death, Prof. Cerio made sure Mr. Pesare's name was in his lineage, bios and any articles on his training in Kempo/kenpo gave SGM. Pesare the credit he so deserved.

    So, I guess, I've done a lot of maturing over the years and every now and then I hear someone throw a shot at Gm. Villari and I remember what Nick Cerio told me and I also should respect Gm. Villari for he is my senior and I come to his aid. Hey, you can disagree with someone on certain issues but that doesn't mean you shouldn't respect him for his position and positive accomplishments.

    The other funny part is, back in the early to mid 70's all those vehement Villari criticis were doing the same thing as far as questionable high dan promotions and self promotion up to 10th for themselves. When I started digging deep into the history, I find Fred. V. had just as much training and in many cases more and left his instructor with higher rank (probationary nidan) then many. Problem was Mr. Villari was more open about it in his very early years and many of these guys claimed their ranking thousands and thousands miles away in other countries at that time. There was no internet then to make contacts and to try to establish a paper trail. One went from brown to 10th and the only documentation that was undisputedly verified was an 8th and it was many years later. I'm not knocking this guy at all and never met him. He was a 'great martial artist and teacher', an icon, but the point is people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Many of Villari's early critics have also adopted Villari's early business practices and teaching methods that they so criticized back then. A lot of hypocrisy. Anyway, that's why I'm a little sensitive, lol. "Joe"
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2006

Share This Page