Triangle (Tiga)

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Dr. Heineken, Mar 30, 2006.

  1. Fireshadow

    Fireshadow New Member

    As far as my training, how I train my people and how I have been trained. Everything is very structured in the beginning. This allows people to define where their shoulders are located and thus where their angles for sweeping are. Minimizing shoulder motion also increases efficiency. It's a tough line to walk because sometimes it's sure nice to turn with that BIG elbow.
  2. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    No problems mate.

    It wasn't meant as an afront. I simply meant in reality, group fights are awkward, messy and confusing & not like the MA flicks. No reference to your situation intended.

    Mimpi indah Y'all
  3. Fireshadow

    Fireshadow New Member

    Gajah Silat,
    In BN, the lines "never" exceed the 2.5 of our own feet distance for any given stance. If we drop below a horse stance for sweeping we then use the langkah for reference of pivot points. This way the langkah helps us control our bodies. We also do several leaping and twisting drills that help us with proprioception (knowing where our body is in space). We leap, twist and control our landings to find center and control where we want to go.
  4. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    You can play? You've put in the disciplined grunt to get the skills? You understand music? As long as you've done the training the particular exercises that got you there are personal preference. Vehicles for improvement, not an end in themselves.
  5. Tuankaki

    Tuankaki Valued Member

    Yes we do, and that has been my goal since I chose to become, shall we say, "martially unencumbered". I was pleased at the feeling we all had as a result of teaching at the Silat-a-Palooza last October or so. The "moderator" picked a topic, and each of us got up and developed on that topic, regardless of "style" or "system". Everyone had a great time and we came away from it feeling like we had fun exploring what we had in common, instead of focusing on the differences. It was a hoot.
  6. Tuankaki

    Tuankaki Valued Member

    Hey Reality, I was still batting for the same team when that story came out. You are a very real and stand up guy, and your actions were on point. Your choosing to share the experience, along with the emotional insights you gained, resulted in a gain for all of us. You da Man!

    In relaying your experience, you are referring to the psycho-emotive quality of the music(s), which is right on point. In my example I was referring to the different styles of music's attendant curricular and training priorities as they relate to differences in martial curriculae and training priorities.

    From a psycho-emotional perspective, you are right on -- Pantera, baby! Hard to "relax"!
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2006
  7. Tuankaki

    Tuankaki Valued Member

    True, dat.
  8. realitychecker

    realitychecker New Member


    Thanks Guru Mike! Lot's of other 'experiences' growing up in Chicago, but that one stands out from a 'musical' standpoint.

    I hate to change the direction of this TIGA thread, but I want to bring up SLIWA.
    How do those of us who use 'platforms' train on the square? One camp that I was in teaches it is "evasive" vs. 'Tiga's' "directness".
    Can I ask what everybody's thoughts are on that? I know even DR. Heini has some good experiences in that one.
  9. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member

    New Platform

    We believe that any platform can be used for either attack or defense; that said, we also feel that the square (sliwa) offers different possibilies for defense, because the angles and lines can move you out of the way of a rush differently than the tiga does. There are times when going straight in or to the side serve better than angling in or out, notably when there might be a second attacker upon whom you don't want to offer your back.
  10. realitychecker

    realitychecker New Member

    Thank you very much, Steve. Do you train the Sliwa by practicing jurus on it in a sequence?..similar to Tiga? Also, is there level changes?
    Thanks again!
  11. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    We do. There are also ground exercises on all of the platforms as well as partner drills.
  12. realitychecker

    realitychecker New Member

    Thank you too, Todd. Can you please elaborate a little more?
    Much appreciated!
  13. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member


    I'm not sure what you are looking for, JR -- but we learn all of our djurus on each platform. We also have stepping drills, wherein you shift your stance from one point to another, and two-persons drills in which you sapu or beset, or attack or defend along a line or angle.

    Ground work is trickier to describe. Here's one example: Attack comes, you can drop to a three-point stance, or a four-point, then move one support to set up for a kick, sweep, like that.
  14. Dr. Heineken

    Dr. Heineken New Member


    Sliwa was a subject not touched upon in the VDT camp and is not taught till the "end" of the curriculum. That being said, we just played around and worked it the best we knew how. First with the techniques, then doing push pull exersizes, and a lot of pressure alleviation.
    We would have one person just put there foot in the middle of the square, and then the secong practitioner would cross himself up in the platform, and see where he is weak. You can immediately see where you are in danger of being hit/taken down, and can help with escape routes. This is basically finding out where you are screwed; where you made a bad step/entry/lost control of shoulder line/center line...
    Obviously pukulan is not used here, it is to develop the feeling of being under pressure from "off" angles, and figuring out, if in any way, how to effectively deal with the situation. Again, you messed up and are now having to deal with force from an off angle.

    It can be used as a baiting tool, but this is something that was not trained in my former camp. Perhaps Mr. Perry or Mr. Ellner can elaborate on this one.

    I liked it because it gave me freedom to be at a different range. I could flank more as opposed to tiga; holding your ground or cutting in.

    Thank You.

  15. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Our Sliwa gives us the opportunity to face both inwards or outwards on the square & we have done 'mirror' jurus whilst doing this.

    Doing it low and long is a very good way of covering some distance fast. Also to position yourself behing the attacker.
  16. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    When the word platform is used are we talking about any geometric shape a martial artist may use as a training tool? Apart from line, triangle, square and cross what other shapes do you use?
    Apart from training Langkah and pukulan do those shapes have other meanings for you?
  17. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Ladam Kuda=Horse shoe

    Turun=drop onto 1 knee
    This is useful for a 2 or 3 level attack & with both hands on the ground it gives a very stable base for a back kick or sweep, either designed to make the opponent fall alongside us....we tend to do this from behind the opponent.

    Not sure about the term 'platform', must be a US thing :confused:

    Hey, Narrue are you wanting to know any esoteric aspects of shapes? Sorry dude, that's the very last stage of our training. Will let you know in 30 years or so ;)
  18. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Hahaha….30 years!! Won’t you be an old man by then? What I meant is are there internal/breathing practices in Silat which are done whilst moving on a “platform”. I don’t call such practices as esoteric. I recall one such practice in which every step meant something but it was not in a silat context, just wondering if such things exist in silat?
  19. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Oh yoga :D ;)

    Sorry mate, I just don't know. I have an inkling that movement & breathing must combine in tenaga dalam practices though.

    Seriously though, breathing and posture are certainly interlinked.

    Actually, almost bringing this back to thread. In one of my hippiest moments, I did study yoga in India for a while & have noticed certain similarities with some Silat postures :eek: Certainly the triangle is important in both.

    As Narayan said of Indonesia, "India is everywhere, but I do not see it".

    Anyway, before going wildly off track I actually wonder if one can enter a trance state through kembungan????

    Oh, and 30years, I'll be pushing 70 :eek:
  20. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Well movement and breath are important from a yogic point of view so im sure it should form a part of movement on a “platform”

    About entering trance in kembangan I think it’s possible if you knew a little bit about how the brain works and how states of mind can be altered.

    Anyway back to “platforms” I once heard of a silat system which takes its langkah step sequence from verses in the Quran, I always thought that was a very strange and complicated way of learning foot work, does anyone hear do that type of practice?

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