Trespass /breaking and entering self self defence laws

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by CrowZer0, Jul 4, 2015.

  1. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    If someone was trying to break into my house, and was in my front yard can I physically stop them? Or do I have to wait for them to break in before I can defend myself? Also if someone's in my yard and refusing to move. Can i remove them physically? Do I have to call the police? Can they be charged with anything? What are the laws in the UK like around this sort of thing?
     
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If there breaking in, opening the door is going to make it easier for them.

    If you do go, call the police first, get someone to lock it behind you, don't take a weapon out with you, (something that isn't a weapon may be a good idea, maybe not depending on situation)

    Trespass isn't something the police will care about, whereas calling the police and saying their breaking in, threatening violence etc will get a quicker response.

    Most burgulars don't want witnesses so will bolt if your at home, if they know your there, and there still breaking in, its a very bad sign, is there any more context to this?
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  4. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

  5. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I'm not sure.

    But I do know the law frowns on waving at the trespasser from an upstairs window. At least when one is naked except for a Princess Elsa mask and waving a bottle of Sambuca.

    Mitch
     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Reasonable force Law still applies regardless of what/where this trespassing occurs.
    So if the guy/gal is sitting on your wall, looks like she's waiting for her/his mates...its not reasonable to get your shotgun out.

    Escalating this, person is hunting around, looking for entrance points. As said above, these people are opportunists, so calling out or calling the Police is best. They"ve been found out and usually stick to being burglars so they run off.

    Ok so now we're at the worst case scenario. Its in the middle of the night and you find someone in your house.
    Once again, these people want to bolt so they can burgle again.
    99% don't want to get into further trouble...such as assault.
    Saying that, each situation is different and I would handle things (most likely) differently to what I post.

    Lets just say good luck to that person if I find burglar bill decides to visit. (Within reason).
     
  7. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Is it Tuesday already??
     
  8. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    No no no! It's governed by alliteration; Saturday Sambuca, Tuesday is Tequila.

    Mitch
     
  9. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    I've annoyed some scumbags and have been promised a lesson. I caught 3 guys trying to break open my back door with some sort of tool. I'm just wondering what I can do without getting into legal trouble. From my understanding inside my house I'll be pretty safe. In my front yard or back? Not so sure.

    It started with two weeks of one of my neighbours partying 2 doors down, I've heard fighting (very loud arguing) people going in and out. Loud music lots of drunken/High? Laughter. And lots of arguing, it's starts around 10pm and goes on till around 4 or 5am. I've had moments were I went to bed around 11 and been woken at 2am by loud music and I'm up for work at 7. I asked nicely many times please keep it down. I don't know who lives in that house always someone different answering. They completely ignore the neighbours, police were called a few times. As soon as the police leave it starts again. Recently they've been getting very aggressive, not people that actually live there. But friends (I don't know their names). Words were exchanged, threats were exchanged and promises were made.

    I called the police about the 3 guys have them descriptions but from what I understand they can do nothing. As they don't live there. And I don't know their names, two of them I saw today I've never seen before. I have no issue taking care of myself. I just don't like the idea of getting into trouble for it or going over the top. And also most of the day house is empty or my girlfriend or is there alone.

    To give you an example of the noise it can drown out my very loud tv on what I consider uncomfortable and very loud. Relax with a book? Forget about it. Hear someone on the phone? Forget about it. Watch a movie or TV show in peace? Nope.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  10. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    I don't know what changed or what happened. I've been here since December and this is/was a nice quiet area. Over the last month and a half I don't know what changed. It's an absurd house. I've heard arguing many times and I seems a woman was thrown out after an argument. (many times same woman) I thought she lived there. She will bang in the doors and windows at 2am. She will yell help call the police they are abusing me. Then shout about how they are abusing an old man and I called the police and she shouts ha the police are coming to whoever lives in the house then she comes over to me and says don't call the police the police can't see me. And asks if she can come in... I was like :s no. It's 2am I was sleeping and wondering if someone is being murdered. Keep the noise down.
     
  11. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I would start keeping a detailed log with dates and if possible recordings.

    Report the noise nuisance to the council and ask for them to visit the property.

    Also report it to the police and ask them to take action. Report their threats and attempted break us too.

    Canvas neighbours and get them to record things too and corroborate your diary where possible.

    The more background you have the better.

    Sounds like the woman is out of her depth dealing with a terrible situation. Might be worth reporting concerns for her.

    Keep reporting, keep notes.

    Mitch
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If anything happens, what you say to the police is as important as what actually happens,
    I'm sure that jwt better at this then me, but this is my understanding

    You have to use reasonable (to yourself) force to prevent what you reasonably thought was happening.
    But if you do claim SD your admitting you did do it, but you have a good reason why.

    If your already in the situation, you can try to minimise it happening again, or try to play big dog and scare them, if you try this and it fails its a bad bad day.

    I'd definitely make sure doors and windows are secure, get security lights and carry a phone and a big solid torch (for light officer) to and from the car when its dark.

    It sounds like there's an ongoing issue with the group in the house, its hard to tell if it's abuse or codependents or not sometimes.
     
  13. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    I've already contacted council and they've sent out a noise team and spoken to them twice. So that's why no more loud music this week. I kept recordings and events. Other neighbours are all with me. The woman is not in any trouble I would help her otherwise. She seems to be one of the loudest /main causes of problem. Her shouting abuse or help is her way of getting attention. She doesn't live there. And I'm not sure if the people in there are her family or not. I think there was a dispute over who takes care of an old ma there, and I'm sure since I first saw her was when the partying started. I had a police officer round today but he explained other than talk to the neighbours and filing a report they can't really find the perpetrators. I did ask him what I could do legally if it happens again and he gave me some wink wink advice. I like Sheffield police generally quite funny. "well if the broke in you could hit them with those weights there *wink* if you're worried for your life and they are armed like you said".
     
  14. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    Playing with big dog and not backing down from their nonsense is why they are so mad. I'm not bothered about them at all. I'm bothered about goods or vandalism, when I'm not here. I also don't tend to get into trouble at or near home usually it's out and about. I'm worried about losing my cool and turning Hulk on them. My worry is the law. I won't jeopardise my career and life for morons.
     
  15. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    A little more info on the guys today. I heard weird noises when I was upstairs so I went down and saw the 3 idiots trying to wedge or use some sort of tool on my back door. They saw me and acted like it was normal... And started knocking on the door. Me with a face like >.< asked them what the hell (exchange hell for more appropriate language) are you doing. A lot of swearing and who are you and what the hell (again change word) doing. They acted like it was normal for them to be in my garden and apparently they knocked on the front first. Acting very sarcastic. I told them to get off my property and not to come back. A lot of bad words were used and a lot of "challenge" and goading from them refusing to move. Eventually with one hand calling the police and the other I pushed them out of my garden and closed the gate. A lot of warnings were given by them about how I should watch myself and shouldn't act like a hard man and this and that and how they only came to talk. I don't know who they are and only recognised vaguely one of them I've seen before after it got a bit heated and I asked them keep the noise down over a week ago. But it was the one I didn't recognise acting like he was someone special.

    In this situation obviously I can't attack them right? After I have asked them to get off my property? As I was pushing one away they were shouting arms out all acting like how dare I and one took out the tool out of his pocket was some sort of chisel looking thing looked more Blunt than sharp. As I was on the phone giving people details and them making threats they went away eventually and the police were here quick. When I asked the neighbours in question about the guys they acted ignorant. But it was obvious they knew who it was.
     
  16. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Attacking them at this point would be unwise. From your descriptions it seems like this is what they may well be after if not intimidation by vandalism. If you attack a person while they are retreating from your property then it may be harder to successfully claim self defence, especially as given the numbers there is a reasonable probability you could get a kicking.

    If you genuinely feel threatened by them, whether you are on your doorstep or outside on your property, then the option is there to engage physically (Criminal Law Act 1967 Section 3 and Criminal Justice Act 2008 Section 76), however I would caution this as a last resort. The fact that you had initiated a call to the Police on the occasion would work in your favour. From your description it would seem that at least one of them was armed and so restraint might be the better part of valour. That said, someone taking an object like a chisel from their pocket in a heated argument could be construed as about to attack with a lethal weapon and you would be justified in taking immediate physical action, though perhaps retreating to your house might be a safer course.

    It is difficult to provide useful advice over the internet as I'm not experiencing the pressure or emotional intensity of these events. I would advise filming (perhaps with an existing camera) from a window (perhaps by another family member). Keep logging events and report any trespass on your property with tools as attempted invasion by armed (prior brandishing of chisel indicates willingness to use as a weapon) persons.
     
  17. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    I'm on edge and didn't sleep very well. I was thinking if I was them when would be the best time to attack? When I'm fast asleep of course. I kept waking up at noise and listening out if someone's breaking or. Trying to get in. That's my worst nightmare being caught unaware or being in a position were I'm helpless.
     
  18. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    wedensday is wodka?
     
  19. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    This is the second time they've tried to get into your house right?

    Start filming and get a motion sensor light on your front and back door for the night time. when the attention is on them then they wont want to draw attention.

    Catch their stupid faces on camera
     
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Get lights installed outside, get an automatic timer for inside lights, get locks for inside doors, if you can get a plug in motion alarm for downstairs.
     

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