Training rounds for self defence

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by jorvik, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    Having trained for a while I realised that standing in a karate class doing 50 repetitions of punches etc was no good I started changing my training and doing 3 minute rounds of sparring.
    However, after a time I realised that I wasn't training for the kind of situations that I may face i.e a streetfight....so I changed it somewhat. When I do rounds now I do it for a far shorter time , to mimic a streetfight which is usually over in a minute at most .so I will do a 2 minute round where I strike "Poor Bob" continually. I have some methods and some things like Bitch/ Combat slaps which won't fit into this kind of training and I do them seperately......I train weapons also, but in the UK this can be difficult so stuff like a pocket stick are best as they can translate to a combat pen or a flashlight without being seen as weapons..........thoughts? and any advice or suggestions
     
  2. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    jorvik, take a look at this thread by MAP member JWT.

    http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105303

    This was a reality based self defence training day attended by Bassai, myself, my son and some of JWT's students.

    We criticise our own performances and may answer some of your questions, maybe even create further ones.
     
  3. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    Yes I have seen the thread and it is very good..............what I was really trying to comment on was how to train for a real event, I mean physically train. A boxer will think in terms of rounds, varying dependent on whether they are professional or amateur IMHO a better way to go than some trad schools were they train say in 50's , 50 punches, 50 kicks etc

    but for self defence I advocate doing a round of punches, continuously for 2 minutes none stop....or whatever technique you feel comfortable with.....the concept is more one of intensity.ie. punch to failure by throwing as many punches as you can in 2 minutes. and more about physicality than concept.......I enjoyed what they where doing there BTW and would love a go:)
     
  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Well when you do this kind of sparring, what kind of equipment are you wearing and what are the rules?
     
  5. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    I have a "Poor bob"..................I know they are expensive, but they are fantastic IMHO...........I let loose on him, I've done shadow boxing etc, but ...............to be honest I find that my time spent alone training is much more beneficial than training with people, especially if you train attack.but honestly, sometimes I get fed up with training with folks, but I never get tired of Bob, you can use sticks on him as well.and I do.......when I move to the country I think that it will be just me and Bob LOL
     
  6. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    Chadderz
    I just re read your post and realised that I hadn't answered it fully. I don't have any equipment apart from the Poor Bob when I'm training unarmed skills, so I don't wear gloves or pads..and there are no rules or limitations on what I do. My fighting style is based roughly around boxing and wing chun. So from the boxing I will jab and cross to close in and from the WC I will use a combination of usually 6 strikes. That is two palm strikes fingers pointing up, to jaw, 2 edge of hand strikes to throat, two palm strikes fingers ponting to the side...I also use bitch slaps and the back of the forearm, elbow strikes and head butts..and I move slower than a boxer as I tend to re align myself a lot to get in from different angles.
    I had a sort of epithany years back, I realised that boxing training was very good and used to use their methods but then I wanted to fight without rules, and boxing does have rules and one of them is the duration of a fight, then when I thought about it I realised most streetfights were over very quickly.......some of the techniques I use have crept in from Aikido which I used to study, so using the arm to attack is a bit like Tenshin nage or Irimi nage i.e the clothesline throw that you see Segal doing

    With weapons I use either one or two escrima sticks......I was taught Escrima years back, actually by one of the guys on this forum and I still use the method that he showed me which is basically 5 different strikes..again I focus more on intensity than anything else
     
  7. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    I like training bag blitzes for building real fight stamina. It's basically 30-60 seconds of all out striking on the bag as one round, with very brief rest periods in between. Every strike needs to hit as hard as possible. This is actually one I picked up from my old boxing days. We would end a lot of workouts like this with two fighters on a bag. One would punch as hard and as fast as they could for 30 seconds, then the other would punch while the first rested (keeping their hands up naturally).

    I think longer sessions are also in order, as you never know how long you may end up fighting. I read a LE training article years ago that said your best chance of survival is to train to fight for up to 10 minutes straight to allow backup time to arrive. I've incorporated the occasional workout like that of nonstop activity for 10 minutes in the past with great results. Even though the longest fight I was in was only a few minutes tops, half of it at least was simply me pinning down the suspect while waiting for my backup to come.
     
  8. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I've done similar drills to Kuma, great for athletic endurance and also training explsive power and to some dgree, aggression.

    We do 30, 30, 30. This works on the pads, as well as the bag.

    30 seconds at usual pace, 30 seconds flat out and at full power, with a final 30 seconds of recovery, which is working at a slow pace to regain your breath.

    You can set however many rounds you want, a great workout.

    If you only have a bag you can still do a similar drill.
    Swing the bag away and with repetative punches keep it away from you. Work for 1 minute, 45 seconds, 30 seconds, 15 seconds.
     
  9. Brixtonbodunwel

    Brixtonbodunwel Valued Member

    Friends,
    Thanks for your threads and some very interesting training ideas. I trained with a chap who always talked about the 3 second fight( i.e finish it within 3 seconds with a flurry of blows) sounds right but always best to have a fullback position which must be fight stamina. So in my experience Kuma is on the money its building fight stamina. I would say with a mixture of stamina training non specific (burpees etc and there are some excellent stamina drills on youtube I have found the MMA/ Judo and Boxing drills to be the best as they use body weight, medicine balls etc)and specific stamina training (replicating the fight, Bagwork etc).

    'Train very hard and fight even harder'
     
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Ah okay man, thank you for answering my questions :)
     
  11. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    The only trouble with this approach is that you are training to beat up a corpse.People who have blood flowing through their veins don't just stand there and let you punch them repeatedly in the head.I enjoy hitting the bob dummy myself but it is limited in that it dosen't respond in the way a human does.If you can get a partner to hold the bob and move round with it you will have a far better training method.
     
  12. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    Well to quote tony Blauer " it's fake, but it's the best fake stuff we have"....and that is really it. There are loads of ways to train, personnally I love hook and jab pads.Buuuuut it's getting somebody who knows how to use them, and I get fed up relying on other folks for my training, like at the gym I know free weights are better than machines but at least with a machine you can train on your own..BoB is great, a fantastic tool.but hey it's like when you go to the dojo....you have bodies to work with , but how many times do they have you doing things that you can do on your own like kata.....I love Bob ,better than a makiwara
     
  13. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I like my Bob, and need to get his stand back, but I need to swap the water for sand as I just knock him over. Swapping to a bag instead.
     
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    It's a good training tool, but it won't teach you how to fight.


    Like a hammer and a saw, great tools, but you ain't building a house.
     
  15. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    No , Not really.but you see back in the day I used to get into loads of fights, now I'm a fat middle aged guy.but it's like riding a bike you never lose it ( or toilet training for that matter).....see there are some things that you can build upon, and develop ideas from, extrapolate.....there are things that I know will work, and so there are other things that I know have a high chance of working....it;s a bit like the old black musicians in the states, they didn't have money for musical instruments, but they used stuff to make music...the music was always in them.and its the same with fighting etc
     
  16. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    What I'm saying is if you have built one house then it's alot easier to build another
     
  17. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    Uh, three second fight? Sounds pretty optimistic and not at all realistic. I've had a few fights end in a few seconds, but most averaged twenty seconds or so. And with adrenaline, those twenty seconds will feel like two minutes. I believe it's very impractical to train to expect to be able to K.O. everyone you fight. In fact, I would advocate training this way as infrequently as possible, so if a K.O. happens early you'll be pleasantly surprised, instead of being left to wonder why some goon didn't go down immediately like you rehearsed in the dojo.

    Forgive me for noticing, and I actually agree with your point in this case, but you seem to have a lot of strong opinions on what works in a fight and not a lot of actual experience on the subject.
     
  18. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    He's actually referring to a book by Geoff Thompson:

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Three-Second-Fighter-Geoff-Thompson/dp/1873475667"]Amazon.com: Three Second Fighter (9781873475669): Geoff Thompson: Books[/ame]
     
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I believe the tagline to the book is "The Sniper option". It's not about winning a fight in 3 seconds per se but about managing the build up and dialogue portion of an encounter so that the "sniper option" (a pre-emptive strike) becomes available. So if done well can result in a fight being over very quickly.
    Rather than waiting for the other guy to hit you and it degenerating into a drag out fight that could last 30 seconds or 5 minutes.
    It's about a combat mindset really.

    As one of the main architects of the cross training boom to broaden your support fighting skills Geoff Thompson has very much not done that.
    Quite the opposite. He'd recommended cross training in non striking styles precisely because he knows that the sniper option can go wrong, be pre-empted and all manner of nasties.
     
  20. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    As far as actual fights, I've had a few, so I'm not sure what you mean by "not a lot of experience?"
     

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