I'm not trying to be funny but have you actually asked your instructor why it is in there? And also specifically where it comes from in terms of Japanese (or any other) systems? My point is they should hopefully be able to provide specifics about it instead of just saying it is "the same weapons system that the BJJA uses".
Why would a low grade be asking a question like that when they go to train and obviously enjoy the training ? Why are so many caught up in where is this from or that from and lineage etc ? Martial arts were originally devised to fight off attackers not be some elitist lineage art form.You cant get much purer, further back than that fact.
Here we go. To be honest it's a pretty simply question, often history and the development can be transmitted hand in hand with the fighting aspects. If you look at the traditional arts then these things are intertwined. Now this isn't a knock at Ian but if you enjoy something then you naturally want to know more about it so expecting that someone would have asked such a thing is hardly unreasonable. Also when it comes to weapons then it's a pretty important thing, if you look at how the traditional arts are transmitted you should see this. Why do you think these things my be important to a student of swordsmanship? Like I said if you are studying just for fun then all is good, as long as practice is safe and you understand fully what you are getting. However the moment you get into wanting to actually practice the Japanese weapon arts then don't you think it would be nice to actually be studying such systems? Also if you don't know why you are doing something a certain way then you don't understand the system, concept or technique fully do you? The why will be due to the developmental process the art went through and the problems faced at the time. If someone can't explain about how these solutions came about and the reasons for them then there's a big gap in their knowledge, as a student this of course isn't a problem but for a teacher it is and if the basics of such knowledge aren't present within the system then things get very tricky. Now you may well find some information about elements in some systems have been lost or become muddied but there will be a substantial amount of knowledge both written and via physical practice that allows the seniors of the systems to understand the essential elements of the style and extrapolate a good estimate about the background or original purpose of a technique or method. However for the most part there will be a comprehensive body of knowledge and experience of the system that has been transmitted over time. Things such as physical practices, oral traditions and documents which all allow the teachers of these systems to pass on the lessons of the ryu. It's not worth getting into a back and forth discussion too much if you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about lineage and elitism because we'll simply spend most of it talking past one another but if you do want to discuss it with an open mind then I'm sure there are many people who can contribute to the discussion. Do some research and you'll see why people bring these things up, it really isn't a case of elitism but it'll require you to put your preconceptions aside for a while.
I'll say this again in case it gets missed. If you enjoy what you do then all is good, just make sure your practice is safe and your teachers are upfront about what they are delivering. While there may be a few people on the net who like to belittle practioners for not have a traditional background most of us aren't like that. If we raise such issues it is because we genuinely care about the classical Japanese martial arts and we, believe it or not, actually care about the people wanting to study them. We don't want the systems being misrepresented or misunderstandings being fostered and we don't want people looking to study these systems being lied to or not being able to because of a lack of knowledge or a misunderstanding. All most of us want is for people not to be misled and that they are practicing safely and responsibly.
I can't say I have asked my instructor why the weapons are in there, I largely accepted that they were a part of my training, which was a part of the reason I started Jujitsu. I think it will come down to the same problem that was discussed earlier in this thread (I think it was this thread anyway) about the lack of knowledge about the actual history of Jujitsu in the UK, a vague number I remember reading is that 90% of the UK Jujitsu is based on the system the BJJA uses - mine included. So from what I have read up on since the last time it was brought up, Soke James Blundell brought Jujitsu over, and I read on a random site that our system is based on Hontai Yoshin-ryu - How true this is I cannot say. The Lowlands Jujitsu Association Page has some info on the history of Soke Blundell and his Son who is now running the club etc.
I appreciate this! I enjoy the jujitsu that I do a lot, I would like to have a go at some koryu systems at some point as well, but unfortunately there are no clubs near me, so it might be more of a one off session or seminar if such are available.
You wanted weapons training? That's why you started? The why goes beyond "why are they there?". It comes down to why are certain waza done a certain way? Why do you draw how you do? Grip the sword the way you do? What is that kata teaching?
It is not the sole reason I started it. I spent several months mulling over martial arts and what I wanted from it. I already had a TKD background, and wanted something more all rounded, with throws, locks and ground work, and if possible some weapons thrown in, while preferably being a Japanese based martial art. (the weapons came from my mid teen years where me and a friend were interested in martial arts and tried teaching ourselves weapons - back garden free sparing ftw! and I wanted to try and learn something more "official) From talking to friends who trained in various martial arts, it kind of got narrowed down to Jujitsu, Ninjitsu or BJJ - Either there wasnt a local Ninjitsu club or they were just that good at it that I couldn't find them, the only "BJJ" places were MMA gyms, not in large "proper" BJJ. However several Jujitsu clubs popped up. I went to watch a couple and decided to give it a go, and loved it from the first lesson, immediately changing my work hours to allow me to train twice a week ;op
as far as i'm aware the only soke i mentioned was Soke Blundell, his son is just refered to as professor. the only other soke I know of are the recently deceased soke Robert Clarke and Soke Morris could be a misuse of the honorific, but thats what they seem to go by, question them about it if its wrong ;op
My error. I read Soke James Blundell and Soke Blundell as possibly 2 people. But as to whether this is correct usage...
I daresay someone more qualified will go further into it, but going by the wikipedia definitions of soke I'd say that its close enough a title for Soke Blundell as the "headmaster" of the school if you will.
Well considering they use the term "dojo" to refer to a chinese martial arts training location maybe the use of "soke" is off too? Just prodding the debate.
from the earlier discussion i mentioned a bit of research was done and apparently it was to do with the banning of jujitsu (or all japanese martial arts - i forget which way round) in japan during the second world war - a lot of japanese people taught their martial arts in mainland china at the time - however I will admit that "Master Kim" does sound more of a chinese name ;op and I was led to believe that where you train is the dojo, does it matter if its in the back of a shop in sinapore? ;op
Dojo can have some very specific meanings and connotations. Keiko-jo maybe more accurate for a place of practice, I'm not sure but Dojo as I understand it has links to Buddhism and following the "Way". There's a certain deeper meaning going on than simply "somewhere to train". That's my limited understanding, I could be wrong. Although over here certainly Dojo has come to mean anywhere you practice MA.
on my clubs old website under dojo locations we had a mcdonalds listed there because we used it as a meeting place before traveling to gradings, mainly because there was nowhere else to put it on the website... lol
Depends if the chap in question is teaching japanese or chinese martial arts doesn't it? Japanese - dojo Chinese - Kwoon Korean - Dojang I think misusing those terms means that you aren't being as rigourous with your martial arts as you could be. Especially when talking about origins and history rather than conversationally talking about training.
