Discussion in 'Karate' started by Alexander, Jan 20, 2005.
Frank have you been drinking petrol again or are you posting in Haiku?
about the punch tensing stuff, i think(my opinion, mine and my own) that people understand tensing as in turning your arm into a rock hard thing, while in fact what you have to tense are the hands themselves, leaving the rest of the arm untensed, i've found out that you can gain the same level of tensing strenght as a fully tensed arm, and the same speed as a non tensed arm, if you only tense the fingers during the punch, because the wrist is loose, but the tension on the fist makes it firm, so you can add speed and strenght with a wrist movement(however slight it may be).
and about punching techniques, i've also found out that you can actually mix the two, by throwing "diagonal" punches, you get the thrust and speed of a tsuki(thrust, used for punching techniques) with the sideways traveling and force of a boxing punch, sort of like a more staighted out mawashi-tsuki(roundhouse punch).
In my humble opinion there is no difference between a junzuki(front hand punch) and a boxers jab. There is no diff between a left or right gyakuzuki (reverse punch) or a boxers cross, and no diff detween a mawashizuki (hook punch) and a boxers hook. When sparring in karate these basic techniques are modified slightly to be more effective. All the talk of the reverse punch with the non punching hand pulled back to the waist is bull. OK you do this in kata, but i aint seen one guy/girl in sparring do this.
Plus lets not forget tamashiwari (breaking) made famouse by Karateka. If Karate techniques were weak, how do you explain this? its all down to training. Also dont forget the other open hand strikes. Shuto-uchi to the coller bone is very harmfull. Using the palm heel is effective and you are less likely to damage your hands if you have no protection.
I can break boards and I don't train in karate so whats your point? breaking is hardly a test of effective punching. people are not boards.
I agree about the handwrap thingy, which is why I don't train with handwraps on. two hours boxing on the heavy bag the other day and my wrists were fine (my arms on the other hand felt like they were on fire). its the shape of the fist and wrist that counts, not whether you study karate or boxing.
No difference except we can do it with either hand wheras boxers are notoriously one handed.
...and show me a boxer who can generate the same amount of power from an inch away from the target as a Karateka who has mastered ki (ch. Qi)
oh? and this is why karateka are considered the masters of punching when it comes to competition, right
lol, are you saying we're not
last time someone won k-1 or boxing using karate style reverse punch, complete with kiai?
what is a double hip punch?
last time a true karateka entered K1?
actually there have been several. Glaube Feitosa, Andy Hug, Francisco Filho. All of them recieved extensive boxing training to improve their hands, and none of them were great punchers. (although Filho had his moments)
I think sam greko also started as a karateka.
yeah sam greco, and the guy who won the recent k-1 australasia Peter graham started in kyokushin. but, they too had to have extensive boxing training before they could really rumble with everyone else.
Oh but off course ... I didn't say otherwise.
Well if it feels more powerful to you then that's all that counts. Who says it actually is more so? If it does not feel as powerful then the chances are... it's not.
It's hard to say. Personally, the traditional way HURTS like hell when I get hit in the shoulder (my friends and I use to hold a circle of punches game, first one to cry out after being punched has to do a dare - stupid, I know). But I use the boxing style. I don't care about power; as long as it's comfortable, can be chained in a combo, and gets the message through, it's good enough. BTW, you do notice that all the concrete blocks are broken through a boxing punch, not a karate punch. (i.e., they follow through the target), not to mention that most of the punches recorded on psi (800 lbs. of pressure), are boxing punches. I won't pull any punches; a boxing punch is most likely more powerful, but traditional punches hurt. A lot.
I don't know about y'all, but I'm not closing my mind to anything.
I'll take a boxer help, a karate practitioners help, and a shotakan persons help,.... take what works for MY PERSONAL style, and thats it.
Its about a PERSON's comfortability, and effectivity: not the style (in actual fighting not competition.)
A traditional karate punch goes through the target, and SHOULD NOT BE PULLED. Fast and effective strikes are stressed, but also correct. The force of a traditional punch comes from the following through, being fast, and the twist of the wrist at the end of the strike. Ever wonder what the purpose of breaking boards is? To teach the karateka to follow through with their strikes.
Man..... I don't think I've read so much b*ll on one thread about Karate so far as this.
Freestyle Karate consists of people throwing punches from a variety of guard positions just like boxing.
There's no chambering, no withdrawal of the opposite hand. Whether we practise them in basics like that is a different matter, and a different subject.
The only real difference I can see is Karate punches are a little more compact than boxing punches, and less emphasis is put on leaning the upper body than boxing.
I think too many competitors have been furiously retracting the opposite hand , and kiaing way over the top in order to convince the judges to give them that point. Either that or people have been living under rocks.
I'm amazed at how similar they are actually in reality.
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