Traditional Jujitsu Books?

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by Ozid, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. Ozid

    Ozid Valued Member


    I was wondering if any of you guys know any good books about tradition Jujitsu to complement class training. Its hard to find any in the internet due only BJJ are shown. Maybe it is better to split it in Aikido, Karate and BJJ to search for it?

    Have any of you read this book? [ame=""][/ame]

    Thnx in advance :)
  2. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    How about:

    Classical Fighting Arts Of Japan: A Complete Guide To Koryu Jujutsu by Serge Mol

    It's a good book but not sure if it's what you are looking for. Are you after a specific school? Do you want kata or history?
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  3. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Yeah, I'm with Gap there... what exactly are you looking for? What is your understanding of what "traditional jujutsu" is? For the record, though, Serge's book is a good overview, but has a number of issues with it's content, so really shouldn't be taken as gospel in any way, shape, or form... just as an indication of the breadth that exists in Koryu forms. Oh, and I couldn't see what book was being referred to in the OP... just came up "404"....
  4. Ozid

    Ozid Valued Member

    Woops! The book I linked is "25 lessons on official jiujitsu".

    Ok, the think is I live in Spain and the aproach i've found to JJ on my country is mostly sportive. I'm looking for a more in depth view of the art. The book gapjumper proposed looks nice.

    I'm looking for a complete book i can learn from, that it would be useful to learn the names of the techniques aswell as a good description on how to execute them. Historical references qnd filosofy are welcome aswell.

    I do not know the different schools/styles of JJ, so i can't really help you with that. I'll ask my sensei next time.
  5. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

  6. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

  7. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

  8. rne02

    rne02 Valued Member

    I have found this extremely good

    [ame=""]Japan's Ultimate Martial Art: Jujitsu Before 1882 the Classical Japanese Art of Self-Defense: Darrell Max Craig: 9780804830270: Books[/ame]
  9. hext

    hext Valued Member

  10. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    "Tori" is pretty literally "performer", as in the person who is performing the (successful side of the) kata. It's not universally used, but is common enough (with "Uke", or "receiver" being the one who "receives" the technique, or has it applied to them).
  11. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    I think this is the common usage of Tori. Sometimes uke is called teki also.
  12. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Or "aite" (meeting hand), with the "defender" being "ware" (simply "me, myself"), then you get the different weapon terminologies, such as uchidachi and shidachi, uchikomi and kirikomi, and so on.
  13. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Like Chris has said it tends to vary depending on what is being done, the ryu in question, the role etc.

    My state of mind is different when I am uchidachi during keiko for one style to when I am ware in another or even when shidachi compared to uchidachi.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  14. Ozid

    Ozid Valued Member

    Ok!! I've partially read all the info you have supplied(thank you everybody!).

    The thing is, about what I've read, Jujutsu can be for Japanese MAs as kung-fu for Chinese ones. Meaning by that, there is just not one approach to the art but multiple. Got it half-right?

    So i decided to look out what I was really doing. I'm doing jiujitsu following the JJIF. Which in my country means i'm covering the following aspects:
    KIHON, ATEMI WAZA(Striking), UKE WAZA(Blocks), NAGE WAZA(Throws), NE WAZA(Ground), OSAE-WAZA(Ground inmobilization), KANSETSU WAZA(Luxation), SHIME-WAZA(strangle), BUNKAI(??), KATA(forms).

    All of them with its applications bare handed and with weapons.

    I'm interestes in all of them, maybe less in Atemi waza and uke waza.

    So the question is, books covering those aspects? I don't mind if there are from other MA, or they are separated.

    The kind of books I look for is the ones I can use to learn the techniques names, and that they give a detailed explanation on how to execute it so i can train with a sparring partner.

    thnx again!
  15. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Personally I do not recommend trying to learn technique from books or DVD. These things need to be taught by touch and feel, direct experience.

    As for the Chinese/Japanese/Other equation...that's not as important IMO.
  16. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Just an addendum to this, as I forgot to mention it yesterday. "Teki" is not used as an alternate term for "Uke", any more than "chocolate" is used as an alternate term for "vanilla" to describe flavour. Teki pretty literally means "enemy", so it's usage has quite an implication for the methods of training involved, and, as such, is not a substitution of one term for another.

    Er... no. Well, okay, yeah, half right. Jujutsu is either a general or specific term, depending on the context (within a particular system, it's specific to what they mean by it, outside of a particular system, it's more general). It typically refers to unarmed or lightly armed combative methods, with an emphasis on throws, locks, and pins. There are many different forms (systems) of Jujutsu, including old systems (Koryu), modern systems (Gendai), and eclectic (often sporting) ones. Kung fu, on the other hand, is a common Chinese phrase referring to effort, or hard work, and can be applied to any martial art, or things that have nothing to do with martial arts at all (Jujutsu is specific to martial arts, but cannot be applied to all Japanese martial arts. You'd be hard pressed to describe Kendo as a form of Jujutsu, for instance, but Kung Fu can be used to describe Chinese weapon systems).

    Where you're right is in saying that there is no single approach called "Jujutsu"; instead, there are a range of approaches that may be referred to as Jujutsu, which may be similar or rather different.

    Yeah... that has no real resemblance to anything like traditional Jujutsu... for one thing, there's really no place for Bunkai, as that's a Karate concept. And, from it's inclusion (as well as the reference to the JJIF), I'd suggest that the kata you're talking about is more the karate form as well... really not much to do with traditional Jujutsu.

    Probably the biggest thing to realize here is that the list you've given really has no meaning in terms of a specific system of Jujutsu... while they'll all have some, many, or all of the major elements you mention, what is meant by them will vary wildly from system to system, as well as how they're applied. You may also be surprised to know that ground fighting (as in Judo or BJJ ne waza) are actually fairly rare in traditional (Koryu) systems. From there, a particular system might have a large throwing syllabus, but not have much striking or locks... but another might be almost all locking methods with almost no throwing... and either might have chokes, or might not. And, when it comes down to it, the techniques themselves (exactly what makes them up, whether almost all throws, or almost none) isn't really that important... but the reason for the techniques being what they are is.

    If you're genuinely interested in traditional jujutsu, this is exactly the wrong way to approach it. And, if you are interested in traditional jujutsu, but don't have a teacher nearby, then no book or DVD will really help you. All they will do is give you some small clue, but nothing of any real value.

    The thing to remember is that a martial art is an expression of a single approach to combat... so bringing in conflicting ideas from other arts, just because it covers a skill set you think is missing, is to take you away from learning and getting good at that martial art.

    Yeah... this isn't anything to do with traditional Jujutsu, then. Considering where you train, you're best off looking at things like BJJ technique books. But you really should realize that there isn't anything out there that'll really give you "traditional Jujutsu" based on your requirements... as the first thing is to get a teacher.
  17. Ozid

    Ozid Valued Member

    Woa! Thanks, you clear it all up for me. I was totally wrong on what I was looking for!

    The thing is, the class is designed as a preparation for doing Duo-Kata or Fighting(following the JJIF pattern), so it is not a really technical class. And I was looking for a book to complement it. When doing Aikido, I had the feeling that you get a more in depth approach on how to execute a technique(Being Aikido more martial arts like, than sport) and I thought Jiujitsu was more like TKD. I see TKD as a martial art which became a sport, that's why I was talking about "traditional" Jujutsu.

    But i agree with you in the fact that a teacher is always the best way to learn. I suppose I'll have to keep looking :)
  18. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Just thought that you might, if you haven't seen it before, look at what the JJIF does...

    Wiki - Traditional Jujutsu and Sport Ju-Jitsu

    Different schools (ryū) have been teaching traditional Jujutsu in Japan since the 15th century. The JJIF is not a governing body for any of these schools of traditional Japanese jujutsu—the JJIF does not exercise authority over traditional Japanese jujutsu styles, which are often instead headed by leaders who claim leadership from unbroken lineages of transmissions from different Japanese ryū, some of them hundreds of years old.

    Rather, the JJIF was founded as an international federation solely for governing Sport Ju-Jitsu, a competitive sport derived from traditional jujutsu.

    Sorta puts things in perspective... a sports oriented version of JJ for competition.

    Good luck on finding a traditional JJ teacher in your area.

  19. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Sorry for responding to this so late. I have been abroad and internet access has not been much of a priority.

    I wrote a glossary at the end of the article which should clear things up a bit, but it's in alphabetical order so I should clarify.

    In budō, there are a plethora of terms for the "aggressor" and the "defender" and depending on the discipline and jūjutsu in question, they vary.

    In Kenjutsu & kendō, the defender is referred to as shidachi (仕太刀) which means "doing sword" and the aggressor is referred to as uchidachi (打太刀) or "striking sword". In some koryu kenjutsu ryuha however, the role of uchidachi is termed as ukedachi (受太刀) which means "recieving sword" as in to recieve the technique.

    In jūdō, the more generic tori (取り) or "taker" and uke (受け) or "reciever" are used. These terms originate from Tenjin Shinyō-ryū jūjutsu where the terms torimi (取身) and ukemi (受身) were used. Torimi in this context means "taking body" and ukemi means "recieving body".

    In a number of the older ryūha, the terms are very different; The usage of ware (我) or "oneself" and teki (敵), the "enemy" are used to put a psychological edge to the outlook of the particular ryūha's mindset. The term teki is used to dehumanize the person you are fighting against.

    I hope that clarifies things. If not, let me know.
  20. rne02

    rne02 Valued Member

    Defender is always Tori. Uke attacks and then "receives" the throw (or whatever the technique is).

    I have never heard of it ever being the other way around.

Share This Page