I know there are liability issues for event sponsors. This point not withstanding, why is sparring almost a non-existent part of disabled martial arts competitions? I know myself and a few others on this board wouldn't mind trading a little leather. I know that full contact events do not, and should not appeal to everyone, but sparring to some degree is IMO a necessary part of MA training. I feel with proper safety measures in place, a disabled martial artist would be in no more danger while sparring than anyone else. JMO. What do you guys think?
Just Don't Hit Below The Belt Yes, I am a grappler in a standup body-and I'd love to just see even standup sparring allowed. Maybe the thought is that the "physically challenged" could be aesily hurt or don't have enough control. BUT-that just shows that there still are not enough teachers in the MA who teach the disabled. The harvest is plenty, but the laborers are few. God bless all, Canemaster
This is a very good question. I have a thought on this to see what you guys think it may be... There's the obvious insurance issues, but aside from that, there is a greater chance of someone with a disability being hurt easier. The person who is sparring, and is not disabled, needs to be mature enough, and secure enough in him/her self, to alter their style, power, and control their techniques more. The first priority should be the safety of your partner. Now, saying this, I've seen cases where people have taken advantage of a situation like this, knowing the sparring session would be easier to work techniques on a disabled fighter, and would actually feel good about themselves for "doing well" in the match. I think a lack of sparring with disabled students comes from the instructor not having the confidence in his students maturity levels to allow it. Even a disabled fighter, needs to spar, to work out his techniques, maybe even more so then a healthy fighter, so you can really see what is going to realistically work for you, and what won't. You just need your partner to set the ego aside, and allow you to try techniques without being punished by him, just because he can. I think i'm rambling now. It's late. haha
Assumption & Underestimation NP - I have been on the receiving end of underestimation and assumptions a few times while competing. Win, lose, or draw, I feel that I gave each of those opponents a not so gentle reminder to never underestimate one's opponent. I have also been told prior to a match, "I've seen you fight before. You and those gorilla arms of yours aren't getting anywhere near me." I took this as a very high compliment. I know that someone with a disability may have a slightly higher risk of injury while sparring than someone without a disability. My point is that this slight risk should not be used as a reason to eliminate sparring from the kwoon, dojo, or competition. This is IMO a grievous insult to disabled martial artists. How is a martial artist, disabled or not, supposed to know if his techniques will work without testing them on the mat? What, practice diligently against an imaginary foe and hope you get lucky if you have to use your skills for real? Sorry, not a good recipe for success. Please don't sing me the "martial arts aren't all about fighting" song either. There are plenty of other ways for people with or without a disability to exercise, and increase their self esteem. Martial arts practice may provide these things, but at the end of the day, what separates martial arts from working out at the gym is the ability to protect yourself. I apologize if this post seems a bit angry. The lack of sparring that is rampant in disabled MA training is a real sore spot for me. I am extremely thankful that I have been knocked out, had my nose broken, and gotten more split lips and bruises than I can count, all as part of sparring in class. These injuries have given me the ability to take a shot, and a very realistic understanding of my abilities and limitations. Without these experiences IMO I'd just be playing kung fu, not training to defend myself if need be.
Agreeing With Bent Monl Hi all- Great minds do think alike! Bent Monk, I wish I had the sparring experience that you have had-though I have been underestimated in my grappling after a scary moment early on where we thought I ripped my hamstring. YES-people with disabilities run a greater risk of injury. That's why you have pads, headgear, protective cups. That's why schools have insurance. People, regardless of physical ability, are hurt in the dojo every day. But most bad guys don't go out on the street and say, "Lemme make sure I try to mug someone who will fight back!" No, they look for the easy target. No, I don't love having my face cut or hamstring pulled in class-but if I CANNOT prepare in the dojo for real life, WHY go 2-4 times a week? Why practice outside of class when you have a 50-60 hour work week. Believe me, even though I sometimes feel I slow my adult class down, the others clearly know I'm there at the end of the day! God Bless All, Canemaster
I guess it depends on the dissablity. If both parties are up for abit of sparing, then I dont see any real problem with it, though I can just imagine the liability the venue would have.
Believe me, I'm all for sparring! I think it's important, and needed. My thoughts on it are simply that both people parring need to be aware of limitations, and not use them to an unfair advantage. For instance, my handicap is my spine. I don't "look" handicapped... yet, because I can still walk upright, and carry myself very well. I can move in small doses, before pain set in, and I need to wait it out. One of the things I can no longer do, is grapple or wrestle, so my sparring partner needs to know, we can't clinch and take things to the ground. A hard slam on my spine, and I'd be finished. Just respect the limitations, and do what you can do to till get a great sparring session out of it! Most of the time, you'll find people to still allow you do techniques on them, even if they can't return the technique do to your condition.
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome NP - Good points. IMO Sparring provides a disabled fighter with the physical and mental toughness required have a chance at surviving a real life attack. They will at least have some idea of what to do when they are knocked out of their chair, deprived of their cane, put in a painful position, punched, or kicked. Yes safety should be paramount, but which is the greater risk; being hurt while training or competing in a safe environment, or being hurt or killed because you never trained live? I'm not saying everyone needs to train like they're fighting UFC, but a little bit of realism can go a long way. Sparring in competition is fun, and can inspire some to train harder.
Only Two? Are CaneMaster and I the only two disabled martial artists that spar? There has to be more of us. Where are the rest of you? Do you spar at all? If yes...how often and how hard? If not...why? I'm also interested in hearing from instructors. Do you have your disabled students spar? How often? How hard? If you do not...why? Yes someone may be hurt while sparring, that is a risk all martial artists take disabled or not. Besides, it only hurts for a little while.
Huh? I just walk funny. I have cerebral palsy. It affects my balance and mobility. My hands and arms work quite well though. My legs are always bent when I walk or move. Hence the moniker.
Once Again I Ask... My experience at the Arnold this past weekend has reaggravated my issue with the complete lack of sparring competitions for disabled martial artists. I was told that it was due to insurance issues. I don't see why insurance would be any bigger a problem than any other event. If it is, that seems discriminatory to me. Is there truly just no interest? Somebody help me here, 'cause I don't get it. Sparring is fun and educational. It is also IMO what distinguishes MA from exercising. I know that not everyone who trains MA is able and or willing to spar. However, I think it is absurd that those of us who wish to spar must do so in the most accommodating non-disabled event we can find. I am glad to know that I can successfully compete against a non-disabled opponent. Still, it does get old always showing up to the fight with two less weapons than your opponent. Also, some disabled martial artists may see trying to win against an able bodied opponent as an unrealistic endeavor. I think that there should be an arena for everyone who practices MA to test and demonstrate their skills. Is there anyone who agrees with me?
Hello Again, Bent Monk I met you at the Holiday Inn in Columbus during the Arnold Martial Arts event. (I was one of the the guys sparring when you met Prof. Ed McLachlan. You and I worked on a sweep from the mounted position to the guard a few times.) My experience working with disabled martial artists has been primarily with people with mental challenges as well as physical ones. The majority of our mentally challenged students are not encouraged to spar, as they often either have control issues, or a lot of fear...either of which can lead to injuries to either person involved. I have met quite a few people with physical challenges who DO spar however, and have often been impressed by their abilities to overcome their limitations. A month or so ago, I was in Hamilton, Ontario sparring with a room full of martial artists, one of whom had physical limitations similar to your own. He struggled a little with opponents during stand-up fighting, but was an absolute bear on the ground! He was stronger than I was, and had enough knowledge and experience to avoid being submitted. Even standing, he had a number of techniques that were working for him. I honestly believe that whether or not you spar should have little to do with the limitations of your body...at 140lbs, I am much smaller than most of the guys in my dojo, but that doesn't mean that I am not allowed to spar with guys who are 200lbs! If I wasn't mentally prepared to do so, than I wouldn't do it. It shouldn't be any different for you or anyone else. If you are willing to accept the fact that your opponent has advantages that you don't, and you still get on the mat or in the ring, you have proven that you are a true martial artist, and not just "there for the exercise". The only other thing that I would add to this conversation is this: As far as I know, the insurance requirements are NO DIFFERENT when working with people with special needs, as opposed to the "able bodied", so that is not an excuse! Our members in wheel chairs do not cost us any more than the other students. Unless things are radically different in the U.S., I wouldn't buy that reasoning from anyone. If sparring is done with rational limits and controls, and everyone is aware of their sparring partner's limitations, there is no reason for ANY disability from allowing you to experience the whole range of Martial Arts training.
We Meet Again Greetings DB. It was a pleasure working with you and your fellow students. Prof. Ed is a good teacher. The techniques I picked up from you guys have already served me well in my sparring. I am also very happy to know that there are others like myself who want to spar. I wish enough of us could gather at one event to show the need for a disabled sparring division. This "concern" about injury is IMO condescending. If the two people sparring are cool with the risk, what right does anyone have to tell them they cannot spar? Obviously there are exceptions to everything. There are those that should not spar. However, to make all suffer for the needs of a few is unfair in any situation. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to change this narrow minded attitude? I took second place in the men's open karate kumite this past Sunday. I am currently training with the intention of entering the amateur San Shou competition next year. Perhaps if I succeed in enough non-disabled arenas, someone will listen to the rest of us and give us our own division.
