Torqued knee during training

Discussion in 'Injuries and Prevention' started by Jaydub, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. Jaydub

    Jaydub Valued Member

    I torqued my knee during training last night. I didn't properly pivot my foot while executing a low roundhouse kick. It wasn't even full speed or power. I was just kind of casually going through the motion of the technique (in hindsight, that probably wasn't very wise) while the instructor was explaining the proper concept to a new student.

    I felt a pop, my knee buckled, and I went down. It was very embarrassing. I'd say the pain was maybe 4 0r 5 on a scale of 1 to 10. Certainly not what I'd call excruciating. The instructor kept me down for a few minutes, applied an ice pack, and checked my range of motion. Everything was fine, and the pain subsided pretty quickly. finished the class with minor discomfort. I even sparred later on with no issue. Afterwards, I went home and popped an anti-inflammatory before going to bed.

    I woke up at 3:00 am in excruciating pain, and could barely get out of bed. I limped my way into work this morning very slowly. I had some very important things to do first thing, so I didn't seek medical attention right away. By about 10:00 am, I was down to minor discomfort again and was walking without a limp.

    I've done a bit of reading on torn ACL's, but it doesn't feel that severe. At what point should I be concerned enough to seek medical attention? I'm not used to being injured. I don't want to waste anyone's time over a little twisted knee that I could just walk off.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  2. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    At what point should you be concerned enough to seek medical attention? At the point where an injury to a complex and vulnerable joint like the knee wakes you up at 3.00am with excruciating pain, that's when!

    Here's a similar story. I caught my left thumb during training for my last grading, it got pushed back into the socket. It and the surrounding area swelled up to twice normal size, I lost all strength in it in some planes of movement, generally not good. I obviously ignored it and did the grading anyway :D

    Months later I was seeing my GP for help as it was still a problem. I couldn't carry plates from the dining table, some grips with that hand were impossible, it hurt like anything if it took a similar knock. I booked an appointment whilst feeling guilty that I was wasting his time.

    "Thumbs are what differentiate us from animals, yours should probably work properly," he said.

    My point being that knees are integral to you walking, so go get it checked out, just in case :)
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  3. CMM

    CMM New Member

    I agree with Mitch. Go see a doctor sooner, not later. Be sure to carefully describe the motion and positioning that caused the injury.
    And for heaven's sake, don't train on that knee. Don't even do the ol' "I'll just go and watch" routine; we all know how that usually ends.
  4. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Go back about 27 years, I was training Long Fist, doing round house kicks on a target pad when I felt something in my left ankle that caused me great pain. I decided to walk it off. Did the same with the knees more than a few times..... go back 25 years I was working on a Long Fist Staff form and tripped myself and fell on the ground and could not walk. I stayed and trained by jumping on one leg, going backwards, holding a kick pad for others. I decided to walk it off, went to a restaurant to meet my then wife. She made me go to the ER. They asked me how I broke my ankle the first time. Apparently that first walk off I broke my ankle and I had done it again. Ended up in a blow up splint.

    Now remember the knee pain I walked off....did that a lot..... now in my late 50s I have horrible arthritis and just had surgery for a meniscus tear I could not walk off.... I did walk one off before.....

    Go see a doctor, maybe its nothing, but don't just walk it off, you may live to regret it later when they tell you can't do things you use to do because of the joints you walked off
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  5. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Yesterday. I mean, if you have insurance coverage, what's stopping you from seeking treatment? In my opinion if you're training for fighting and not regularly consulting with a medical doctor, something is wrong.
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  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Generally if you can't walk properly, get to an AandE department, they'll check the bones not broken, if you can walk, go see a GP, then it's generally a six week wait for swelling to go down before you can use scans, to check ligament tears etc.

    Note that's from a UK perspective, if in doubt go to A/E.
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  7. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    My advice is go see a Dr immediately.

    It isn't a waste of time to make sure an injury isn't serious. They are professionals. Seeing what the nature of a health issue is, is their job. The danger of causing more damage by waiting too long is far more important than worrying about going and finding out you are not seriously hurt.

    We martial artists tend to push through things, sometimes when we shouldn't. My first instructor taught me the difference with the term "martial spirit- not martial stupid." :D A group of us at my school have to remind each other of this concept/ phrase every so often.

    My long term instructor was huge on the idea of pushing through with the term used at my school "martial spirit." But by the last couple of years of teaching, she changed her opinion on the concept and stopped using the term completely. She grew to dislike it because she felt too many people injured themselves in the name of martial spirit.

    Keep us updated on how you are doing. Wishing you all the best for a quick recovery.
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  8. Monkey_Magic

    Monkey_Magic Well-Known Member

    I love the term “martial spirit - not martial stupid”. I might steal that to use myself.
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  9. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    all I will input is, I'd see a doctor.
    If I'd done the same 20 years ago I would have walked it off, which I did with a few other injuries.

    Hope you get it sorted!
    Grond likes this.
  10. Jaydub

    Jaydub Valued Member

    Thank you everyone for all of the input and advice. It felt a lot better this morning, and generally hasn't been bothering me at all today. I'm going to skip training tonight as a precaution and see how it feels Saturday or next week.

    It's very frustrating because I wasn't doing anything intense or strenuous. I was literally just loosening up a little before we started a very basic kicking/leg checking drill with a new student.
    axelb and Dead_pool like this.
  11. CMM

    CMM New Member

    I don't mean to sound harsh, but just to be clear: seven experienced people (including at least one physician) urge you to go get your knee checked out ASAP, but your preference is to wait it out, yes?
    Is there a healthcare access problem?
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  12. Jaydub

    Jaydub Valued Member

    I have access to great health care.

    Part of my hesitation is that it could come with some indirect career implications.
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  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If your knee isn't injured that getting it checked out shouldn't effect your career.

    If it is injured however, hiding it, may not be long term good for you, or for your "team".

    To be fair I've partially ripped my ACL and was walking fine after a few days... However it was unstable as heck and didn't get fixed untill I had an operation and a lot of physical therapy.

    If you want a non official check, go and see a private physio in a few weeks, they can run a basic stability test and see what's what.
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  14. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I went back and re-read your description. I'm no doctor but "pops" that occurs in a joint is often a sprained ligament or strained tendon, and what you described is what would happen either with a sprained knee or strain of the tissue attaching the muscle around the knee. The outcome is always the same whether it's a knee or hear and feel the pop, and fall down. 5 out of 10 pain scale sounds about right for a mild sprained knee, which I think most athletes would consider a significant if not severe injury. Def worthy of a check in with the ortho.

    Very, very common sports injury but the key issue is severity. Light or mild you can usually just heal on your own, but training is out of the question for at least a while. There is a big chance of recurrence that only increases with severity. It'll keep popping and get worse. I've popped my knee before and then repopped it the next day, crashing to the ground both times because you just can't put weight on this kind of injury. And if it's bad enough, you definitely need medical attention because surgery is sometimes required.

    Not usually career ending though. Most professional athletes go through sprains...comes with the territory.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
  15. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Good link about this kind of injury and especially how to avoid. My personal big three avoidance factors are warming up properly (gradually), getting a lot of the right vitamins and minerals on my diet, and not training or impacting a joint that has any recent or lingering pain.

    Sprains and Strains
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Go to Hospital!!

    (This from a person with long history of knee issues)
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