To my English/ British Friends on MAP

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by aaradia, Sep 9, 2022.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    The US got rid of the monarchy, but they still have a political system that rewards mediocrity and a connected background, over actual leadership ability and economic competence.
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  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Edward VIII:
    Prince Phillip:
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I'm not suggesting following America, for one we havnt got the population to conduct two genocides first!
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  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's why we had to outsource it to the empire!
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  5. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Oh, absolutely; those photos are well known, and Edward VIII is deeply suspect for his sympathies. But to be fair to Elizabeth, I don't think there has ever been evidence of her being a fan of Hitler or Nazism; that photo was taken when she was what, 6 or 7 years old?

    Regardless, the popular perception of her from those years is much more the picture below, rightly or wrongly. 1582754-o-elizabeth.jpg
    bassai and David Harrison like this.
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, the Elizabeth one was a bit cheeky; it's just a little girl being conned into a photo by a dodgy relative.

    The British Royal family's relationship with the German aristocracy was a complicated family affair though! But you can't choose your family!
  7. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Pro-Royalty people being up in arms that Holly and Phil jumped "The Queue" is ridiculous.
    Either we are in favour of people getting privilege and preferential treatment, based purely on who they are, or we aren't right?
    If we're in favour of it we keep the Royal family and Holly and Phil get to jump the queue.
    If we're not in favour of it then scrap the Royal family, treat everyone the same and Holly and Phil queue like everyone else.
    I have no idea why the Royal Family get special treatment but not Holly and Phil?
  8. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I am not one of those Americans who follows the royal family at all. I figure we broke away from a Monarchy for a reason. So I personally find it weird that so many Americans follow the Royal family so avidly.

    But using that picture of a very young Elizabeth being goaded into a pose was a cheap shot IMO. She served as a mechanic in the military during WW2. I get a lot of the critiques, but veterans who served their country against Nazi's deserve some respect for that.

    So many Americans set up politicians, and even generational families of politicians (Kennedy, Bush, etc.) and look up to them like royalty, even though we supposedly developed a system of government meant to specifically avoid that. It boggles my mind. Is there some part of human nature that WANTS to set up leaders? And, regardless of the system of government, we put people in those pseudo-royal positions? Regarless of mediocrity or low levels of competence?
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I'm as baffled as you. I just don't have the ability to be deferential to someone "just because".
    I respect everyone at a base level. That respect can go up or down based on that person's actions and/or opinions.
    Some people I respect highly and some people go into minus respect.
    I admire people that display some kind of hard won knowledge or skill without going over into hero worship.
    But respect and admiration aren't the same as deference.

    The only thing I can really think contributes is maybe an innate desire to have a parent figure of some sort? Someone "above" them in the pecking order/hierarchy?
    I had a glimpse of this a couple of years back when my Mum died. She was the last person from previous generations left.
    Grandparents went years ago, then Dad, then various Aunties and Uncles, Step-dad and then Mum. I have an older brother but that's not quite the same.
    And although I'm now a middle aged man, with my own family, having someone older to talk to or use as a sounding board (even if I ignored her advice!) was comforting in some way and losing that "landmark" in my life left me feeling very uncomfortable and contributed to some mental health issues after.
    The knowledge that the buck stops with you, there is no one "in charge" but you, I can see causing people some mental discomfort and having a Royal (or Preseidntal?) "family" fulfilling that role might help some?
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  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    She did a few weeks training as a driver and mechanic in the last few weeks of the war. She went back to her palace at the end of every day. To call her a veteran is, I think, an insult to the women who risked and lost their lives as nurses, ambulance drivers etc. on the front lines and during air raids at home. Whenever the women's auxiliary services are mentioned we see the photo ops of the queen, and no-one knows the names of women who made real sacrifices in the fight against the axis powers. To me, this is another example of how reverence and treating some people as better than others is completely unjust.

    As for the photo; it wasn't to try and show that she was a nazi, but to illustrate the complicated relationship and family ties between the royal family and German aristocracy who were nazis.
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  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Just to be clear; I don't hold the queen personally responsible for any of this, but the institution she was born into. I think she probably did about the best she could under the circumstances, apart from all those exclusions she sought from British law that the rest of us have to follow.
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    The Royal Family had links to German aristocracy!? The Saxe-Coburg and Gotha...I mean The "Windsors"? But they sound so quintessentially English!
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  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Relevant quote from Blackadder:

    Darling: I'm as British as Queen Victoria! ; Blackadder: So, your father's German, you're half-German and you married a German?

    Edit, a small amount of bad language.
    SWC Sifu Ben likes this.

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