I should come clean and tell of my one experience 'on the street'. Of course this street looked a lot like my friends house and the thug I confronted looked a lot like his much younger brother. The little brother was annoying us so I asked my friend, "why don't you take care of this?" At that point my friend explained to me that he didn't mess with his brother since he started TKD. I rolled my eyes at this since I was in the same TKD class and higher rank. So I said "let me handle this..." Being a kind sort I decided to warn the young lad first. I had barely started my preamble when the little guy kicks me perfectly in the family jewels. Well that hadn't gone as planned and I had my friend mocking me saying, "I warned you!" So I recover and approach the little brother again saying, "Now look Nate. Now I am really..." Again with the same kick. But this time I was ready to catch it and flip the little bugger on his back. Only I didn't. I swear I tried like three times to catch that kick that unerring nailed me in the groin and dropped me again! Street 1 Aaron 0
My wife and I were out shopping in Manchester city centre on Saturday. While heading into China town to pick up noodles we walked past a little market stall, where the 6'3 / 200+ lbs stall owner was holding a much smaller man at arms length (single-hand lapel hold). The smaller man had a glazed expression and was slurring his words (at least, more than you'd expect for a Manc), so he was probably drunk or high. But he was swinging his fists in wild haymakers, any of which could have ko'd the stall owner. A friend of the stall owner was on the phone to the police. Then, the smaller man broke free and became even more aggressive. The stall owner dropped him with a kick to the head! I wanted to applaud him, but my wife dragged me away. On the way back (about 30 mins later) I spoke to the stall owner. Turns out he does TKD!
My phone is a Sony Ericsson T280i, no video capability If you're ever in Manchester, ask the fella yourself. Tall black dude who owns the vinyl record stall (next to the book & fruit stand) on Church Street between the Arndale and Affleck's Palace.
-1 rep for such a dreadfully cheap phone. +1 rep for having such a low desirable mugging target phone.
My point here is that fitness has nothing to do with putting a knife into the throat of an unfortunate individual. Any lazy, out of shape, untrained thug could achieve that. Fitness has little bearing if the fight is ended in a couple of seconds. Obviously, the longer the fight lasts, then fitness will help much more...BUT...any well-trained martial artist would rather end it in seconds and not minutes because the longer it continues, the higher the risk of serious injusry to both parties (assuming a one-to-one situation) Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Believe me, I am in no way bitter....a little twisted perhaps, but certainly not bitter. I have no reason to feel that way. It may surprise you that some instructors and martial artist actually believe that posturing / strutting your stuff can deter an aggressor. Five years ago a local kung Fu instructor claimed to teach kids as young as 5 how to defend against a knife. I strongly opposed this because if an adult freezes against a knife (which most of us would) then a young child frankly has no chance. The instructor then claimed that a 15 year old student was approached by a knife weilding agressor, so the student 'adopted a Kung Fu pose' I also slammed this, stating that if he has chance to adopt a Kung Fu stance, he had time to run!!! Ok...let me explain my reason for knocking the 'X' block. I teach the Filipino Martial Arts, which along with Silat, tend to specialise in weapons defence. A key concept is that to 'defend against a weapon, you need to understand how that weapon can be used.' Now for example, the attacker has a double edged knife...I perform a high X block and immediately the attacker pulls the knife backwards or upwards and both of my wrists are cut. Same with the low X block. This is where it simply doesn't work. There are similar moves that may work but these only engage one arm at a time rather than a simultaneous motion. Yes, I agree that a kick may work against a drunken opponent. Otherwise I would not use it against a knife. For clarity, my reason is that the foot has to travel a long distance compared with a slight motion of the knife to avoid or cut the kicker. I have demonstrated this against a very capable 3rd Dan kicking specialist and the results were a shin hack, an inner thigh slash and a groin cut. Best regards Peter
I agree wholeheartedly. Being fit is certainly a positive and increases one's chances in a monkey dance or a long, drawn out self defense situation. However, when a weapon is drawn or the attack is a sudden, explosive, and unexpected one - then fitness pretty much goes out of the window because it is going to be over pretty quick. I think that awareness and having the will to do what needs to be done to survive to see another day, even if it means total submission and compliance, is what is most important. Another excellent point. A lot of what passes as self defense in ye average dojang is just fancy, unrealistic techniques that will make you feel good by giving you a false sense of security, but will ultimately get you killed should you need to use it for real. Fancy and beautiful do not equal effective. The X-block works against a single, committed limb traveling on a straight line. It fails against multiple limbs coming at the same time or a single limb that adjusts and changes trajectory (as in Escrima). I trained in Escrima for a few months and it was a no-brainer that most of the defensive measures I learned in both Shotokan and TKD would fail miserably against a seasoned knife fighter, be he and Escrimador or just an experienced knife fighter who knows what he is doing. Well, when something only merely may work against a drunken opponent, then it is a very low percentage technique and not something that should be counted on when your life is on the line. I am not a big proponet for kicking in a self defense situation because too many things can and usually do go wrong with it. Trying to kick a knife out of someone's hands is completely out of the question unless you are acting in a demo, a movie, or you are Chuck Norris. I caution against using high kicks, as well. A good fighter is going to be able to see the whole thing coming from a mile away (the subtle shift in body weight needed to throw a high kick), and he will either catch it and dump you, or he'll respond with a vicious counter attack. When it comes to self defense, prefer to keep the kicks low, if I even throw them at all (which, having worked in corrections for years and currently working as a security professional, I have yet to throw).
Teaching a five year old to defend against a knife? It is amazing how crazy some people are. I once had a mother want me to talk to her son because he ran away from two adults and didn't try to use his martial arts. I had to inform her that *I*, being a fairly big adult at 6 foot 195 lbs, would need a really really good reason before taking on two other adults and that her 10 year old son had done the right thing. Last time I ever saw that student. I don't know what she thought a 10 year old should do against two full grown men. Too many movies, perhaps...
Yes, it is crazy what some people will do to try to attack new students. Thankfully, the guy is no longer teaching any form of martial arts now. Just imagine a young child actually thinking that they could take on an adult with a knife. Probably the most irresponsible teaching that I have ever seen.
Yes, I fully agree here. Awareness and the will to survive at all costs are crucial. Another point here...no matter how fit a person is, the eyes can not be trained to be fit. Now a finger jab is the fastest hand attack that we have. In a split second, the confrontation could be over, and again, the fitness has gone out of the window. Thank you. Correct again. Fancy may attract some new students, BUT, it does not save many lives. I conducted international research in 2007 and found quite clearly that almost 70% of people take up martial arts for self-protection BUT almost 90% of people that start martial arts quit within a year. Clearly something is wrong. Many quit through injury, which may suggest poor methodology and many quit because the instructor could not teach them what they came into the martial arts for. As an aside to my research, the highest level of injuries and drop-out came from those martial arts with a high sports focus. Ha Ha Ha Yes, I remember the same shock when I first started training in the Filipino Martial Arts about 16 years ago. Every knife defense that I had learned during the previous 20 years was literally ripped apart within seconds. A real eye-opener for me. Best wishes Peter
For me the issue of knife defence is one of simplicity. My experience is that when faced with a COMMITTED attacker (frenzied slashing and stabbing) armed with something other than a rubber knife, who is shouting and swearing, most people will grab with both hands and hang on as if their life depends on it (because it does). When we've tested this with a shockknife against some very 'salty' guys (ones that not only train hard but have been there and done it), the same result holds true. We even asked them to try a wrap, a single hand grab, a disarm etc. They wouldn't even consider it, let alone try it. It can be really easy (even in good scenario training) to almost reverse engineer solutions that work for the training scenario. But there comes a point as you up the realism and perceived danger that the survival mechanism well and truly kicks in. There is a video on youtube of this training. Let me know if you want the link and I'll PM it to you (too much swearing to post in this nice forum )
HI Dik, How often do you use the shock knife? I considered it as a training tool, but discarded the idea in the end because of the safety warnings on the knife the last time I visited the website stated that it should not be used as a stabbing tool (I can't find this on the modern site). Because of the type of training I do there are some distinct disadvantages to the knife: 1. With the level of force we attack, there is the possibility that in the event of a flamingo up the knife could go with force into an unprotected area of the body and actually stab. Because we have broken rubber knives in this manner twice (one student two years ago panicked once and flinched so much that he pushed his palm into the knife at a right angle - anything other than rubber would have gone through his hand, I broke a blade on a student's thigh once), we don't use wooden or aluminium knives. 2. One type of armour we use is so thick that while you would feel the stab, you would not get the shock (and again because of the level of contact we would not do high intensity blade training without some armour on, unless we are specifically training slash avoidance with minimal attacker follow through or resistance). 3. Another type of armour that we use has better shock absorption, greater flexibility, and is thinner, but is made of rubber and still just slightly too thick. So I could see myself using it as a slashing tool, but only in fairly static training. Would be interested in the pros and cons you have found with it.
Hi We use it for stabbing and slashing but with limitations. But only the experienced people act as the attacker. I've had similar experiences in the bulletman suit, and for those scenarios we only use the rubber knife. We don't use any body armour on the students apart from a throat protector and groin guard (two areas that don't react well to the electricity), plus goggles if we are going to attack high. For me, the utility of the shockknife is much more in the fear response it produces (crackling, arcing, glinting), rather than the actual shock of contact. But it is only one tool in the entire training arsenal. There are things it does well, things it doesn't. As I'm sure you do, we use different training knives to train different attributes. The biggest issue is legality. In the UK you cannot legally have one, without jumping through some major hoops with your local police department. But as a training tool within the overall programme, it is very useful.
Hi Dik Thanks for the info. From what You've said I may consider one in the future. We're currently finding that observationally we get great feedback from both impact and video, but there is a place for the shock. Police hoops can be a hassle, but I've students and contacts that can help with that. At present shock knife comes second to building up more stocks of armour so we can have more than 6 people involved in some of our more complex scenarios at any one time (for example victim(s), protagonist(s), innocent bystanders who may or may not get caught up and join in, bouncers etc...).
My experiences using our shock knife with our students is roughly the same as Dikzzz. It's a good training tool to add adrenal stress into the mix, but I just see it as just another tool in the chest. It is a good one though in my experience. In the USA, the legality varies depending what state you are in, but at least in mine, it's legal if you are a tactical instructor.
I would keep it positive and call it an adrenalin rush. The SP world, as it wants to sell its systems and solutions, will call it an adrenalin 'dump' A negative take claiming all fall apart.Then their system is the solution. Its part of a sales pitch. It all depends on how we look at the same thing. Adrenalin will help a person run and it will help them stay and fight ..it prepars the body to do one or the other. Each individual will vary on what they do. Those that are scared and fear should use that rush to get away. Its designed to that. People who get a rush that they thrive off are not sociopaths. Getting no adrenalin or less is a different subject than what I mean. I see what you mean by finding the correct stimulus. I know of a guy who is not phased by violence and lots of experience with it yet if something happens to his kids he panics..even if its minor.
How does he fair with Sabre Tooth Tigers? Fair point about the word "dump". I've never really seen it as negatively as you do. Even the word "rush" doesn't have the same connotations as "dump". Although it's all just semantics I feel that the word "dump" better gets over the speed and intensity that adrenalin can be produced by the body. "Rush" still seems not as immediate. I also think that for the vast majority of people "adrenal dump" is exactly what they get when confronted by violence. The people that don't get adrenal dump (like your mate) are much rarer and unlikely to feel that they need to seek out SD training.
Any chance you could forward this research for publication in TotallyTKD magazine (www.totallytkd.com) - I think it would make an interesting article for TKD folk! Cheers, Stuart
This is interesting, many thanks for that info. As part of our Self protection course for advanced students we teach to 'double grab' the knife, so its interesting to know that with the 'ante' up'd, wraps etc. arnt gone for. Cheers, Stuart
Yes of course Stuart. I will need to condense it because it's over 20,000 words. bear with me and I'll send it off as quickly as I can. Best regards Peter
