"Throw" and "Takedown"

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by TheMightyMcClaw, May 20, 2007.

  1. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    Can anyone tell me what exactly marks the distinction between a "throw" and a "takedown"? I tend to use these terms somewhat interchangeably, but then I get reactions along the lines "[technique x] is a throw, not a takedown!"
  2. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Not sure if there's any "official" distinction, but I'd class a throw as something that can end a fight there and then, and a takedown as something used primarily to transition from a standing fight to a ground one. Of course, there's a grey area where these could go either way depending on the force and the degree of success, but it's a start!
  3. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Do the feet of the uke leave the ground = throw..
    if not takedown...( or bad throw !!!)

  4. Lily

    Lily Valued Member

    Agree with Aegis and Smurfy here, a bit of both with a grey area.

    McClaw - its probably MA dependent too. I find in JJJ the term 'throw' is used when the opponent's weight is somewhat transferred on to us, their feet lifted off the ground.

    A 'takedown' is a transition move from standup to ground (can be a fight ender depending on force/environment but generally not).

    Within our dojo, 'sweeps' would be a technique set that straddles both the 'throw' and 'takedown' category.
  5. 19thlohan

    19thlohan Beast and the Broadsword

    I would consider a throw something that takes your opponant off the ground and over some part of your body and anything else a takedown, with the exception of the leg chopping throw.
  6. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    In judo it's a throw if it puts your opponent on his back. The end result of any good throw or takedown is always the same, though: I'm applying an armbar.
  7. Mr Punch

    Mr Punch Homicidal puppet

    Yep, I'm going with a throw being something that gets one or both feet off the ground and a takedown being one that gets one or no feet off the ground!
  8. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    "Takedown" is a parent term that blankets all techniques where you take a person standing to the ground while grabbing.

    Throws are when you take someone down with their feet off the ground from the clinch position.

    Slams are when you lift an opponent into the air off of a shoot (double, single, fireman, whatever) and slam them onto the ground. Also can be done to a person you lift up while in their guard, or while triangled.

    Sweeps/Reaps/Trips are when you take an opponent down from the clinch range without lifting them off the ground.
  9. hanakuso

    hanakuso Banned Banned

    Its one of those rectangle/square things
  10. Lily

    Lily Valued Member

    Like what the Sherpas carry around?

    Wait, I'm going to have to find our resident specialist for a paper on this topic.
  11. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    I would say (if I differentiated at all) That in a take down you go with him. In a throw you have the option to remain standing.

    regards koyo
  12. hanakuso

    hanakuso Banned Banned

  13. Dao

    Dao Valued Member

    In our system a throw is defined as a technique whereby both uke's feet leave the ground. A takedown is where uke end up on the ground but generally only one foot leaves the ground.
    For example seoi nage is a throw and kote gaeshi is a takedown.

    Hope this helps!

  14. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    I've always felt that we don't really do throws in Shotokan, only takedowns. So the myriad of sweeps and so forth I'd count as a takedown. Differing from what some have said, that leaves me standing, and my assailant on the ground. It's the same with hip sweeps and the like. You may decide to go down on one knee or something so you can get a punch on the ground in more easily, but I'd say that you're not technically going to the ground with the assailant.

    If anything, for me, I'd only end up on the floor with a takedown gone wrong, but that's just my 2c
  15. Incredible Bulk

    Incredible Bulk Eat-Lift-Eat-Sleep-Grow

    in judo we were taught throws... using the body's limbs for leverage and often rotating/lifting at the hip. Opponent lands on their back and your usually ontop of them of beside them.

    takedowns are more geared to wrestling? lunging towards someones waist and trying to take the legs out?
  16. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    I personally think a hard and fast definition is quite dificult because there is so much overlap between the two. If anything I would say the differentiation between throw and takedown have more to do with the best known historical orgin of the move than the actual mechanics of it (I grant some of these moves actually independatly evolved in multiple places, but the general martial arts practicing public recognizes them mostly from one or the other). Generally if a move originates from greco-roman or western folk style wrestling, it will be considered a take-down. Examples include the single leg, double leg, high-crotch, etc. If the move originates from asian martial arts it's more likely to be considered a throw such as a hip toss or greater outter reaping throw.

    I grant, even this definition is imperfect, as it's not at all uncommon to see a hip-throw in a greco-roman event, but I think this is still more correctly the source of the bais toward calling a move a take-down or a throw than any other. No matter how you slice it the definition will be grey. Cheers!
  17. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    But that's used in judo too, a lot actually.
  18. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    I like that definition! Makes alot of sense.
  19. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    In reality the end result of a good one is I'm legging it because I'm still stood up; or I'm on the ground and belting them in the face quickly so I can get up immediately thereafter and leg it. :D

  20. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    I think this definition falls a bit short. What about a double-leg or a high crotch, both of which are generally considered take-downs, and both of which involve both the opponent's feet leaving the floor. Sorry to be pendantic, but I don't think you can really make a division based soley on mechanics.


Share This Page