Thinking about Aikido

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Music Man, Dec 7, 2015.

  1. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Saying that martial arts don't teach you self defence seems like such a strange statement to those just starting out, but hopefully this will go some way to explaining why.

    Many classes that claim to teach self defence just have you face a student acting angry or violent. but not all aggressors are the same.

    • Reactive Aggression
    Resulting from underlying stress, inability to achieve goals and personality conflicts.

    • Instrumental Aggression
    Aggression with the intent to gain i.e. material gain through assault or robbery, bullying or sexual advances.

    • Pathological Aggression
    Aggression caused through mental health conditions or the abuse of drugs or alcohol.

    Now each of these aggressors need dealing with differently and with a good self defence system you'll need to understand your verbal communication skills, your own attitude and body language and things like ETGS, LEAP, the law, how to report to the police and this includes being able to recall and report exactly what happened and why.

    All this is just for starters and this is what you want then take up a martial art and look for self defence classes or seminars elsewhere.
     
  2. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    Thanks for the replies all! I'm leaning more towards Muay Thai as is. It seems safer when it comes to injuries in training and more effective in a real fight.

    Just to say, some of the other styles in my area are Bjj, Tkd, Boxing, and Japanese jujitsu and Judo.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
  3. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    man, that's a massive gap between the two arts.

    aikido is tremendous fun. but if you're looking for practical training, probably not the most efficient use of your time. i would worry about aikido on your wrists, since you've mentioned you have an issue there. because there's a lot of compliance, there's a lot of opportunity for people to tweak your wrists, just because they can.
     
  4. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    I agree with Smitfire. FMA or another weapon art all the way. I'll plug HEMA too. I used to be a professional musician, and I have never had a HEMA injury that would have stopped me from gigging. I'm a bassist, so I have to keep all those bird bones in my hands safe. As long as you have good gloves like the SPES heavies with a mod to reinforce the thumbs, you're golden.

    Muay Thai is pretty awesome though. Aikido would be too rough on the wrists.
     
  5. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    Along the lines of stick fighting, I've had good luck with kobudo. :) Never bothered my wrists in the slightest. The bokken sparring in Shinkendo and Kendo is spiffy too, in my experience. I reckon aikido would be mighty hard on the wrists and probably not a good choice.I've only dabbled with that and Chin Na, so I defer to the other folks with more experience on that.
     
  6. jaggernautico

    jaggernautico Valued Member

    You have to careful in either art because of your injuries. I would suggest maybe looking into filipino MA(Arnis,kali,escrima,etc), alot of musician friends of mine have loved the training. I think it offers a ton of excellent attributes and has sparring from heavily padded to limited gear a la dog brothers. It has an empty hands component as well.
     
  7. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    The school that I'm looking at has both Muay Thai and Filipino martial arts. Here is a link.

    http://martialartsfredericksburgva.com

    What all open hand things are there in Filipino martial arts? I'm not that experienced with this type of martial art.
     
  8. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Eskrima has a complete empty hand system, which includes punches, trapping, locks, chokes and so on.

    One advantage FMA has over many arts is there isn't a separate system to learn when it comes to weapons, as there are empty hand versions of the weapons strikes, blocks etc.

    It's a very direct art, but the syllabus from some systems have been watered down a little for a western audience.

    One thing I would say is the average Filipino isn't a strapping 6ft muscular guy, so I personally take my punching mechanics from boxing and elbows from Muay Thai.

    It's a great art once you get your head around the empty hand applications.
     
  9. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Yo Mitch, do you feel that there are compromises made in FMA in terms of power generation and such to make their empty hand fall in line with their bladed techniques? I guess what I'm thinking is that weapons offer a range extension and a mechanical advantage that would necessitate some distinction between that and empty hand techniques.
     
  10. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Mitch?

    Don't let the shiny head fool you. We are different people. :simon::mitch:

    The Filipinos certainly wouldn't accept they were compromising, but now the art is readily available in the west it's westerners they are trying to punch, lock and kick.

    GM Danny Guba always said JKD was short for Just Kidding, Dan, which always annoyed me.

    I always wanted to say, “put down that stick and let's see how good your empty hands are against a JKD exponent”

    This is just my experience and you could just as easily love Karate, but prefer the lock flow system from Aikido.

    Also take into account the idiot 200lb westerner who tries to take on a 140lb Thai and gets his butt handed to him.

    It's all only as good as your application and application under pressure.
     
  11. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    I am quite surprised that a lot of people recommend FMA...all those attacks to the hands - Ouch! I haven't had any serious injuries doing FMA but my wrists, knuckles and fingers would often get smashed up during training and I'd be doing everything one handed for a few days after.
     
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I was surprised that people were recommending an art that came up with the phrase "defanging the snake" as a hand and wrist friendly pastime :confused:

    Not to mention that fact that the wrist is used a lot more in one-handed weapon work than the kind of punching used in MT and boxing.
     
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I know technically it is a mechanical advantage, but I think of it as a technical disadvantage. It's much easier to do weapon work with less than optimum body mechanics, because it will hurt your opponent in a major way even with bad form.
     
  14. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Right that's kind of my point - what could be effective with blades will be ineffective with empty hands because a weapon offers a release from certain constraints of stance and mechanics and such; I can't punch effectively from bottom mount but I can certainly stab from there with efficacy (although I'd rather be in top mount with the knife, naturally).

    Just right up front for absolutely ANYONE reading this, I am speaking with no significant knowledge of how to use a knife and my knowledge is entirely theoretical.
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I come from a system that applies weapons to empty hand technique, but I have a little experience of a system where empty hand technique is derived from weapon use. There are pro's and con's.

    We've just mentioned the major con, but one thing going for it is increased accuracy of striking and awareness of striking angles, as weapons exaggerate those aspects.

    Weapon use in grappling can give big insights into empty handed leverage too. there's nothing like finding that "pop" in a takedown/throw with a staff or cudgel where you hardly move at all and your partner goes flying, and IME you can bring that knowledge back into your empty hand technique to improve efficiency.
     
  16. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Good points (get it? points, ahaha), I hadn't considered that.

    Sometimes I giggle like an idiot when I think about how useful a knife would be for assisting a double leg or something.
     
  17. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    Ok, so I took a muay thai class tonight. It went well but its not really what I'm looking for (mostly the kicking is what I'm not a fan of).

    So I think I've narrowed it down to 2 styles I was not majorly considering: boxing and bjj. Given my wrist, back and knee issues which do you all think would be best for me between the 2? Also, which do you think is honestly better for street situations when it come to self protection and when it comes to self injury using these styles?
     
  18. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Tone doesn't transfer well on a keyboard, so apologies if this comes across as rude, but I have a hard time believing that this is a serious question. Truly consider what it sounds like:
    "Yo, I have weak wrists. Should I punch 80-pound bags for a half-hour a couple times a week?"

    "Yo, I have a bad back and bad knees. Should I let someone lie on top of me with his full body weight, and forcibly twist my neck and my limbs up like taffy a couple times a week?"

    :rolleyes:

    Try tai chi.


    The best martial art for self-defense is the one that you can actually train in at least 3 times a week for the next 3 years. But the story of your life that you have presented to us is "none of the above." I sincerely hope that changes because, hey, martial arts is my hobby and I love it. But do notice that you've only shared with us your history of quitting things quickly. I will grant for the sake of discussion that you totally 100% had bona fide legitimate reasons for quitting. So what. The fact is that quitting quickly -- for any reason -- is not compatible with self defense on the evil "str33t". :dunno:
     
  19. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    I do believe that there are ways to work around my physical problems. For instance, boxing: don't hit the bag as hard. Bjj: tell my traning partner to go easy. Where there is a will there is a way!
     
  20. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Or you could just suck it up a bit. I train incredibly hard and often and I've never hurt my hands. I smashed my hands in a motorcycle accident though.
     

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