Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by ThaiNinja, Aug 15, 2011.
The Undertaker was my favourite wrestler as a kid... that is all I have to say.
I think he migh tbe getting confused with penns ass whupping of the Judo dan ranks at that comp, rather than BJJ blacks? I heard Penn got his BJJ black swift though ( heard from a mate at my gym who looks like a monkey).
Oh the monkey bloke?
Must be true then.
he was wearing his 'fez of the seers' which lent his statements extra clout
There's a video of him tapping out a judo blackbelt as a jiu jutsu white belt. That's probably what is being referred to.
Penn took three years to earn black and shortly afterward followed up by winning the World Championship in his weight class. With the Undertaker, we are talking about one year. I have tapped several BJJ black belts in competition (it's mostly who I have to fight in my divisions) and have black belts in both JJJ and Judo, but I would never expect to be given a BJJ black belt this way no matter how good of a submission grappler I am (or in this case, he is). Some of the Gracie family (including Rickson) have recently commented on how sport Jiu-Jitsu is moving away from being the self-defense oriented system that it used to be. They have compared it to sports like Judo and Tae Kwon Do where the players have gotten SO sport specific that their systems have lost much of their value in regards to real fighting and they fear it is quickly moving farther that way.
My concern is less towards Gi work or lack thereof. I compete in No-Gi myself and lean a bit more that way in the debate. However, I really do see the slippery slope that this can create. One of the things I respect most about someone who has earned a BJJ black belt is the standards that they have went through and the competency and requirements involved. I, like many around here, remember the days when many other system's black belts WERE something impressive. These days, while many individual black belts may be very formidable fighters, no one (in the know at least) is trembling in awe just because someone is a TKD black belt. The standards have been too watered down, not by the quality of the good, but rather by the quanity of the bad. IMO, I see this as setting a bad precedent in that direction.
personally i feel that No-Gi grappling is fine because it does help with the self defense element in the sense of in the street you will not most likely be wearing a GI, and if you do train BJJ for MMA in the cage you wont be able to wear a Gi while fighting. but on the same hand BJJ is still a traditional martial arts in that respect i think you should have to wear a Gi to recieve a black belt, because a black belt in any system must know or have done everything up to their respective rank material, and BJJ does have some techniques like Gi chokes and sweeps, so that means you have to have a gi to perform them so i think purist should take the gi off SOMETIMES and do no gi grappling to make themselves complete grapplers who can grapple in any situation. And the same for guys who do MMA just To have a better understanding of BJJ and to show respect to that martial arts they should tie the Gi on SOMETIMES. besides no one has ever heard of TKD No Dobok black belt or a Karate No gi Black belt. but there are some very talented people who train informally just my thoughts
Given his history in wrestling he is bound to have some knowledge on grappling and given his interest in MMA there's a chance he actually earned it. I mean for all we know he could have been training in the art for 4 hours a day, everyday.
Tom Hardy trained 8 hours a day, everyday for his upcoming movie 'Warrior'. However, even if this is the case, for the Undertaker to perfect his technique to the level of a black belt within a year is highly unlikely. I think his coach just wanted to pull a publicity stunt.
I think that's just hype. Not even professional MMA fighters train that much.
I'm just assuming there were black belts competing at the nationals(?) he won at white.
I'm not saying he's got no respect for the rank system, I'm giving an example of why he might have been promoted quickly.
EDIT: Could have sworn he won one of those at white belt. Sounds like I'm getting mixed up.
not even sure this is real, but if it is anyone know if hes competed anywhere?
I know he trained for years with ken shamrock in submission wrestling but i still have a hard time thinking hes a black belt level grappler
Probably, but the point stands I guess.
hey ratty. i'm not trying to get into an argument over semantics. i see what you're trying to say. my point is that his belt isn't necessarily an accurate barometer of someone's skill level. it's an arbitrary assignment of "rank" that takes into account many things. that's all. i'm sure a guy like bj penn deserves his ranking.
i don't see how it really measures anything though. you mentioned that penn was tapping out black belts as a white belt. clearly, in that case, the belt meant nothing. it was the skill level.
i know i'm not making a very clear point. having a hard time really trying to say what i'm thinking. sorry.
Your saying that just because you have a black belt doesn't mean you can't be bettered by someone without so the belt is meaningless... thing is, a black belt in some arts IS an accurate indicator of skill (amoung other things) - because that the basis on which it is awarded.
Very well put KG
I also understand that some people have the skills of a black belt but due to having a good instructor they are told to wait and show respect to that particular martial arts and put in the required TIME to get that rank and actually end up better martial artist for just that
whereas the 'taker spent one year not saying he isnt black belt worthy but what some people take as a true prize he was still given in less than 2years and even in tkd it takes 2.5-3yrs to become a black belt and those are just given out at SOME schools so in a MA like BJJ that belt does mean something because really when you look in the broad scope their isnt that many folks who have a BJJ BB
I know penn was a prodigy and he deserved his belt BUT let me say That is A RARE FIND
Was it from white > black in a year? Or was he already a mid to high level already?
Would like to see him grapple though, he's got dodgy hips and knees, but a guy who is close to 7ft and athletic as he is (considering his age) see how he fares.
wonder if he wears the same singlet.
He said "Rashad getting his belt was the tipping point".
Now with Rashad, even the Gracies criticised the Gracies at that time..
Im certainly not criticising, just it would be good to know exactly what the process was.
I keep seeing people say that can't believe that Mark Calaway (A.k.a. "The Undertaker") could earn a Black belt in BJJ "in a year"...
Where are they getting "a year" from? The first post here says he's been "...training the art since January 2010" and that he was awarded a Black Belt "after 19 months."
19 Months = 1 Year, 7 Months. Significantly more than a year.
I wouldn't put it past Mark Calaway to have done so... Sure, he may be a Professional Wrestler, but he is one of the few in WWE who can take extraordinary long breaks from in ring action, so it's totally possible he has learned other fighting styles over the years, and that those helped him to learn Brazilian Jiu Jitsu easier... thus explaining how he earned a Black Belt so quickly.
With that said, I am trying to verify this claim, as I do not trust something which doesn't list sources. If I do manage to find something that verifies this, I'll make sure to post it...
Hope you aren't implying that I fabricated this mate.....
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