The Traditional Pencak Silat Preservers Forum

Discussion in 'Silat' started by nasigoreng, Jun 18, 2007.

  1. nasigoreng

    nasigoreng Valued Member

    Hello to everyone.
    I would like to bring to everyone's attention a relatively new organization based in Jakarta Indonesia whose purpose is to attempt to research, document, and preserve traditional pencak silat: The Traditional Silat Enthusiasts and Preservers Forum (Forum Pecinta & Pelestarian Silat Traditional


    Their website is silatindonesia.com and features articles written by teachers as well as current events in the area.

    I've been asked to translate some of these articles and i've been doing the best i can with my limited Bahasa Indonesia skills but i'm in way over my head. I would like to invite anyone with competant Indonesian skills to volunteer their time for this worthy cause. Please PM for more details.

    This article introduces the group (translated by yours truly):

    The Traditional Silat Enthusiasts and Preservers Forum

    Pencak Silat, as an Indonesian and Southeast Asian art form, has been experiencing rapid development. The evidence for this can be seen in all the competitors from many different foreign countries becoming more and more active in the regional and international competitions. The numbers of Pencak Silat training centers in foreign countries have been mushrooming, especially in Holland, France, England, and even The United States.

    This is certainly gratifying for the Pencak Silat community. The process of standardizing the training methods, jurus (forms), and competition rules will make it even easier to spread Pencak Silat to all corners of the world. However, in the middle of this process, something has been left out and that is what is people refer to as Traditional Silat. Traditional Silat is now arduously trying to maintain its existence but is currently threatened by the presence of foreign martial arts in Indonesia that are incessantly promoted. The lack of organization amongst Silat advocates and the exclusiveness or esotericism surrounding Pencak Silat training have allowed these foreign martial arts to flourish.

    Pencak Silat is a martial art from Indonesia. It is a very old discipline, it’s even been suggested that it has been in existence since the Indonesian archipelago began to be populated several thousand years ago. The movements and principles of Pencak Silat were applied in the daily activities by the early Southeast Asian cultures. Some of these simple movements can even be seen on several relief decorating the Borobudur Temple.

    Pencak Silat was born from the unique cultural perception of early Indonesians in how they viewed the relationship between the natural environment, themselves, and God. This continuously developing interaction and deep contemplation has given birth to the concepts “Olah Rasa”(spiritual training), “Olah Raga” (sport or physical training), and “Olah Pikir” (mental training). These concepts are the foundation for Pencak Silat philosophy, which in practice, are diverse in conception and in implementation.

    Aside from the philosophical aspects mentioned above, traditional Pencak Silat has been influenced by individuals and culture since its beginning. This has made present-day Indonesia one of the world’s largest resources for combative science. Because of the multi-tiered nature of most regions in Indonesia, there can be many different kinds of Silat styles in every province.


    Traditional Pencak Silat is of such importance in Indonesia because it can be considered a kind of investment capital for the (mental and spiritual) development of the nation. With a little bit of attention, planning, and good management, Pencak Silat can become the foundation for the development of Indonesian national character (“National Character Building”)

    This is because Traditional Pencak Silat contains the fundamental philosophy necessary to build or form the human character or national identity (The element of feeling which is concerned with the spiritual/religious, the physical element which is concerned with the health of the body, and the mental element which is concerned with intellectualism and civilized behavior). Aside from being one of the tools that can be used to develop the national character, Traditional Silat also has the potential to become a cultural legacy that is highly valued. When managed using the principles of modern business, Pencak Silat can function as a medium to introduce the Indonesian culture to the world and improve the country’s reputation abroad.

    Using the framework above, our goal has been to re-introduce, promote and preserve Indonesia’s martial arts’ through documentation and writing articles. After considering suggestions and opinions from our peers regarding how to proceed, we decided to focus our first article on a style of Traditional Pencak Silat that comes from the Tanah Abang neighborhood in Jakarta. This style is called Silat Sabeni (named after the founder Engkong Sabeni).

    We are often processing articles like the one regarding Silat Sabeni mentioned above and our goal is to eventually document different styles and release the information in the form of a book. The Internet is one of our most important tools for finding and sharing information.

    During our search for more information online, we found something very interesting. The number of Pencak Silat websites from Indonesia was less than those originating from outside of Southeast Asia. Not only that, these foreign websites offered information on Pencak Silat that appeared more complete, up to date, and better organized. While it’s encouraging to know there are so many aficionados of Pencak Silat throughout the world, it can also be considered ironic that foreigners are more committed to preserving information about Indonesia’s cultural legacy than Indonesians themselves!

    Two of the websites we visited were kpsnusantara and silatindoneisia.com. Through the silatbogor@yahoogroups.com discussion board, we posted our first article entitled “The Sabeni Silat System from Tanah Abang. The response we received through the message board was appreciative and posting the article resulted in a lot of discussion that was productive and enlightening. These online discussions eventually led to real-world meetings with the goal of establishing camaraderie with the Sabeni clan and practicing this style together.

    As our real-world meetings became more frequent and on-line discussions became more in-depth, the scope of our research became broader. Suddenly, our focus wasn’t discussing the single Silat style above but many different Silat systems from Indnonesia (this was rather unexpected).

    Through the yahoo discussion group, our peers offered many thoughts and ideas, which were all accompanied by a commitment to promote and preserve the Traditional Pencak Silat systems. This became our goal and we tried to develop a basic framework about Indonesia’s traditional martial arts. From this interaction came the idea to begin an informal organization unaffiliated with other organizations, but inclusive of all groups. Thus was born the Forum Pecinta and Pelestari Silat Traditional (The Traditional Silat Preservers and Enthusiasts Fourm), an organization for all people interested in the development of Traditional Silat.

    While still in its developing stages, an event was successfully held which was historical for the organization. This event was the first meeting at the Padepokan (training center) Pencak Silat Indonesia on Saturday, June 10, 2006 where our organization received the support and assistance of one of Indonesia’s Pencak Silat icons: Mas O’ong Maryono.

    This and subsequent meetings were attended by respected figures like Mas Suhartono, Bapak Edward, Bapak Haji Aziz and Ki Sawung and representatives from the Suci Hati organization. We were touched by their support and interest in helping to preserve traditional Indonesian Martial Arts. During the course of these meetings, the goals of our organization were refined thus:

    1.The documentation of Traditional Pencak Silat (the scope of our research for the time being, limited to the greater Jakarta area).

    2.Promotion of Silat to the young generation.

    3.Training in Traditioanl Silat

    4.Establishing the Forum as a legal organization (Yayasan)

    The most important result of the meetings above, was the crystallization of our organization’s Vision and Mission which are:

    Vision: Traditional Silat can become a cultural asset for the nation of Indonesia and function as a tool for the education and formation of national character and pride.

    Mission: To inspire and promote love for and preserve Indonesia’s traditional martial arts.

    In order to achieve our Vision and Mission, it will be necessary to develop a strategy and a program to implement both long and short-term goals along with a process for budgeting. At the time of this writing these programs and goals are still being devised by members of the Forum. Because the Forum members are all pressured by their own work constraints, progress has been slow. Already active, however, are the monthly meetings that discuss and analyze one Silat style in all aspects including: history, philosophy, forms (jurus), and application.

    The monthly discussions represent the Forum’s initial program and it is hoped that these meetings will facilitate the mapping and compellation of data on different styles. Apart from that, these meetings also allow devotees to interact directly with a genuine source and this will hopefully put an end to any distortions or untruths that arise when information isn’t spread directly.

    The Forum’s journey indeed, is still long and if we can make the comparison, the Forum is like a new baby learning how to walk. Always beginning with small steps and the inevitable tumbles before the baby can walk and run. It is hoped that our small steps can become big and meaningful for the continuation of Pencak Silat for the public, and Traditional Silat in particular.

    Eko Hadi S. (Member of SilatBogor emailgroup)
    July 18th,2006. Jakarta.
     
  2. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Interesting post Nasigoreng(about time we had something interesting to disagree about :) ).

    To illustrate a point, I suggest going into a bookshop in Indonesia. You will struggle to find a book on silat. However, the shelves will be full of Karate, TKD, JJJ etc. books......... :cry:

    Now, in the kampung, things are a little different. Look below the surface and there is a lot more silat going on than meets the eye-although this may be hard for your average westerner to unearth.

    Although I would never underestimate the importance of IPSI in the preservation of silat, I do sometimes worry about the homogenisation of silat. I shudder at the thought of some pan-global standardised sport silat....bosan sekali :p For me at least, that loses part of the essence of adaptability and we end up back with, "counter move A with move B".

    Silat, as I know it, has a degree of commonality, but surely part of it's strength is it's diversity ;)

    What would be a great loss is this....

    That guy in a village in Indonesia, who might be a farmer, builder, school teacher, a professor of anthropology (I've met all of these :) )...........you try an attack and he counters with something that you are not familiar with, it catches you completely off guard, and it worked.

    His father taught him that, his grandfather taught his father and so on.

    I think, standardisation can lose those unusual, quirky, dirty, viscious & nasty moves and even worse lose the mentality that uses them.

    What do you guys think?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  3. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    I completely agree. Standardization will naturally promote sport ready, competition oriented techniques. The quirky, nasty stuff and the accompanying mentality will eventually disappear. You might end up with something that looks real nice at demonstrations though.

    One of the great things about Silat is the diversity. The danger is that someone's nephew may have no interest in learning the family system and it eventully is lost. Any effort to preserve traditional Silat is admirable or someday people may be doing something watered down that looks more like karate or tae kwon do.
     
  4. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    How can you standardise so many different elements and systems, without effectively killing off 99% of an already diminishing art.

    Having set standards for all is great for competition, as it places eveyone on a fair and level playing field. This doesn't apply to non-competition, specially if we all remember how these silat styles first developed, for example, by the surrounding environments. So a Sumatran silat man would required different tools to a Bandung silat man, etc... etc...

    It's a noble effort to bring back silat to the peoples attention, but they should be careful that they don't take away from the essence and spirit of the art.

    Cheers,
    Wali
     
  5. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    not uniform ...

    These guys are very aware of the danger of standardising all silat and that is NOT what they want to do. At the moment what they are doing is more identifying traditional silat and bringing teachers to Jakarta to teach or demonstrate. We have had Sabeni fro Tanah Abang Jakarta, Cingkrik Goning from Jakarta too, we have had a Cikalong tour and so on. There is no attempt to standardise moves and philosophy like IPSI has done.

    This group grew out of the silatbogor mailing list, when discussing events in the USA: Sera being trademarked, Mustika Kwitang having a Grand Master in the USA, the best Cimande coming from California, and other things. So it is more a network rather than an organization, at the moment. To date we have only been able to bring silat masters from around Jakarta, but in the future we plan to have a Malay family-wide silat festival, with groups from all over the world. Especially as some silat styles through Dutch Indos are extinct in Indonesia but are alive in the West, for example silat Kuntao Macan in Canada.

    There is some effort to standardize language though, but that is natural. What is more important is the old hidden teachers are now getting the opportunity to get seriously silat minded students who have a commitment to preserve their art. For Western pesilats, this grup and its network is a very handy contact point as they meet once a week in Jakarta and have information and contacts with nearly ALL the silat in this country.

    Warm salaams,
    Bram
     
  6. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hi Bram,

    I didn't specifically mean these guys, but just generalising....

    Hope your keeping well....
     
  7. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Not a Silat practitioner myself but gotta say... very interesting thread. :)
     
  8. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Standardizing

    Hi Martin, I am keeping well thank you. Still in Jawa Timur at the moment, untill the end of the year. I think I'll try to get back for the Xmas shoppers.

    Standardizing in silat is going on anyway, whther people like it or not. As the government wants silat to be an Olympic sport, there needs to be standards and athletes need to be guaranteed that they will stay alive after losing a fight. So the silat becomes sport oriented, and becomes a sport. It becomes uniform, like IPSI's kembangan and jurus-jurus, are boring and uniform.

    On the other hand there is the preservation of silat, like the guys in Jakarta are doing with Cikalong, Sterlak, Cingkrik Goning, Mustika Kwitang and others. This is important, or else we will end up with silat only as a sport.

    And there are also the new silats, hybrids like Tarung Drajat Boxer in Bandung, repackaged ones like Satria Nusantara or Hikmatul Iman, and the silat now developing in the West.

    I think all these kinds of silat and all this development is legit even though myself I prefer traditional silat taught traditionally. Silat moves and doesn't stay still.

    Warm salaams,
    Bram.
     
  9. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  10. Pekir

    Pekir Valued Member

    If this group attemps to enlighten more on the 'kampung' silat it would be a big gain for the whole of the silat community. On my (to few) visits to my relatives in Jakarta I really got the idea that there still is a lot under the surface of what is obvious to see. We have all heard about the bigger well known aliran, styles and pergeruan. Up to the extend that they almost have 'no secrets left'. I have this theory that because we know these big aliran so well we've come to describe silat's history by their development. I wonder if this image would be still true when we got to know more about those very small and little 'kampung' silat activities. So if this initiative is an attempt to get an insight on these traditional 'kampung' persilats it would be a very valuable addition to what we know now.

    I agree that it seems the most attention is directed to the sports side of silat and I'm one of those who have a dinstinctive perspective on it's influence on the development of silat in the future. It's O.K. that there is sports but I also think it's a shame if within ten years we only know olah raga and have forgotten about bela diri and the original variaty of styles. Watching the olah raga competition internationally doesn't make me all to happy. You can't debate they are fighting fiercly, but you can debate if it has something to do with silat. Just a humble opinion btw... Aby serious attempt to safeguard the traditional silat should have a fair chance a far as I'm concerned.

    As far as Kiai Carita point in regard to dutch indo silat that has become extinct in Indonesia. I personally think it would be great if there was a means to find out if there still are connections to make, even if the styles have drifted apart a bit. It would probably also shed some light on 'claims' and the usage of origin names that sound (to say the least) somewhat peculiar to he Indonesians. In regard to this I believe most of those situations are due to misunderstanding and lack of communication and not so much ill intentions.

    Pekir
     
  11. nready

    nready Verifying DMI pool....

    Agree interesting an i for once got taught something about tone in writing hum! Ask, and you receive well there i see tone is the ability to create in the subtext a vision of what you mean! At lest that is what i got from you post -nasigoreng. I am quite moved by the fact you put your heart right out there.
    I can only hope you get a positive end to this.

    So, the only thing i can say being from another style of martial arts (Chinese Martial arts) is that do not drop the medical side i have heard involved an do encourage festivals based around your cultures ideas both in India an in other countries(America, France, England, wherever you can).

    What i have seen of the India system of martial arts marmon so on an silat and the Penka system is interesting like this thread.
     
  12. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Silat ... too narrow for a "national identity" ... think again.

    Maaf ya Mas Eko for my disagreement (yes, it's a translation by nasi-goreng) ... but 'national identity'?
    That is also about homogenity. It would be a mistake to make "silat values" the yardstick for a national identity. In the end, "silat values" are followed by an individual through choice ... not because it's foisted on us because it is part of some groups notion that it should form part of a national identity!

    My other disagreement is perhaps more predictable of me, that I think there is no such thing as 'traditional silat' ... unless it has been codified and is static, not accepting outside influence ... in other words a museum exhibit.

    I agree with Senor Gajah Silat except I don't over-value IPSI.

    And finally ... Bram, what do you really mean when you say " ... even though myself I prefer traditional silat taught traditionally. " Don't hold back now! :woo: This is more like it ... "Silat moves and doesn't stay still". Very true! :D

    Silat is martial insight taught one on one, or through family (which originally began one on one). That is tradition!

    An organisation cannot bestow insight, and it's ways are too general for the journey to one's pinnacle.


    Salam,

    Krisno
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2007
  13. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    LOL 'Om' Krisno, I was just trying to be diplomatic & give a little credit ;)



    Absolutely, then we have a bit of a quandry! How do we preserve something that is more of a process than an object?

    But then again, silat kampung is subject to change because of the traditional manner in which its taught. Each successive teacher will add their own flavour & influence, maybe leave something out they don't like...maybe add something they do.....

    We all express our silat slightly differently to our teacher, don't we? :confused:

    So we could say, being fluid, adaptive and dynamic is a lot more traditional than a bookful of standard jurus2 & what not :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2007
  14. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Spot on.

    You have answered already GS! We preserve the process.

    Exactly! :D
    First we copy. We try to understand principles. We adapt and refine to the dictates of our body and spirit, and it becomes our own expression through the passage of practice over time ;) .

    Salam,
    Krisno
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2007
  15. nasigoreng

    nasigoreng Valued Member

    Here's a fitting parable:

    "When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger."

    I was told by a Chinese martial arts teacher that in the next 30 years most of the kungfu masters/experts will be foreigners. The same thing is happening with Indonesian martial arts. Can it be fixed? How?

    I think the most important aspects that need to be developed are the teaching methodology and promotion.


    It's one thing to earn the rank of 'teacher', it's quite another to try and 'teach' your knowledge. Because silat teachers most likely learned 1-on-1 from their teacher, they don't know how to manage a class of 5 or 10 students. I think it would be interesting if local teachers sat-in on a class taught by a Western silat teacher in order to compare teaching styles. Perhaps training equipment can be introduced so the students can develop their attributes (speed, timing, accuracy).

    Aside from improving the teaching methodology, i think there needs to be a change in how silat is promoted. I would like to see schools create life-like self-defense scenarios to demonstrate their knowledge. It would be much more interesting to see how a man wearing office clothes uses p.s. than watching the students demonstrate techniques on soft mats in the school.



    But isn't the individual and their decision-making process shaped by things they have learned and experienced? Can martial arts training impact a person and their character/morality? I've noticed that schools offering children's MA classes in the USA often advertise with statements like "teaches responsibility, respect, discipline, how to set goals, etc...." Why can't PS claim the same thing?

    In countries like Japan and Korea the local martial arts are regarded as a cultural legacy and part of the national identity. It was such a big stereotype back when i was a kid: we thought all Asians knew karate or kungfu. In Japan we see Iado/Kendo, judo, jiu-jitsu, akido, various karate, and kenpo. In Korea there's Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, Kuk Sul Won, HwarangDo, etc... So the styles don't have to be homogenized into one mess to be preserved, they only have to remain effective.

    This group is not a teaching organization. They are trying to research and promote indonesian martial arts to their own people. They research a martial art, write an article about it, and provide contact information for people who are interested and want to meet the instructor.

    things are much different in Indonesia than in the West: martial arts from outside Indonesia are openly promoted (TKD, Akido, Capoeira,etc...) while pencak silat is just fading away into obscurity. Unless this changes, Indonesians will have to travel abroad to learn about their own traditional fighting systems.
     
  16. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    You invited the discussion ... My Opinion Absolutely!

    I agree completely. ;)

    Really!? What exactly needs to be fixed? Whose perception is being used for a yardstick here? What makes it the most valid? Because it is from the milis Silat Bogor? Because they have recruited some perguruan to accept their cause?
    There are a lot of modernists and people making a lot of noise. Silat will continue with or without the pontificating. All you are doing in the west is scratching the lowest rung of silat ... the physical material ... and they want to make that a standard?! Astaga!


    Go agead and meddle away. It is no longer traditional silat though. Traditional silat cannot die as long as there is one person who decides to teach another with the correct emotions.

    What are you talking about? What's the point of spouting a truism?
    The rest of the ****e is meddling crap for the most part ... modernity can take its technology and shove it where it up it's own collective orifice. :D The truth it 99% of the population (sumber silat) won't be using it anyway because who can afford it!


    More pontificating! You would like to see this, you would like to see that? Are you a member of IPSI or a spokes-person ... or an admirer :rolleyes:

    That method is not what I accept (personally ) as tradition. It is the way of the dojo I think.

    PSHAW!! Man, my problem is the absolute arrogance you display.

    And yet ... it's aims are to teach us how we are to make silat and the way it's taught better? :rolleyes:
    Pencak silat is not obscure in the desa and not among the rakyat kecil. Never has been and probably never will.

    Only those who can afford the month wage to buy Macdonalds hamburger and gloat at the prestige can afford to pay for the tuition of TKD, Aikido etc ... that is why in the end silat will be safe from meddlers. :D

    Indonesians will never have to travel abroad to learn silat ... and now I definitely know who is the fool. The only Indonesians who think that way are the same ones who won't deign to go down to the kampung and move with the people ... Indonesia has far more rakyat kecil than it has the modern imperialist.

    Salam,
    Krisno
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2007
  17. nasigoreng

    nasigoreng Valued Member

    i'm just a humble silat student.

    that's ok. if knowledge is allowed to flow between different parties then growth and change are inevitable. [In the context of this thread, 'traditional silat' refers to 'bela-diri' (self-defense)]

    Learning one-on-one is the best way to get competence in any martial art or just about any other skill.

    So if the Forum paints with a broader stroke and encourages loyalty to the nation, somehow that's blasphemy?

    Please don't confuse my ignorant and unworthy ideas with this group's agenda. I am not a member of the Forum so can't speak for them. They just asked me to translate around 30 articles and i was asking for help. the Forum's goals are:

    Vision: Traditional Silat can become a cultural asset for the nation of Indonesia and function as a tool for the education and formation of national character and pride.

    Mission: To inspire and promote love for and preserve Indonesia’s traditional martial arts.

    Don't kill the messenger. If you want to argue with them, feel free to visit their website silatindonesia.com .Some of my translated work has been moved to a sister-site: sahabatsilat.org. There is a bi-lingual forum there.


    Ibu Rita Suwanda (Mande Muda) has told me otherwise. She said Indonesian youth these days want to study PS for competition, not traditional silat (jurus and bela diri). The continuation of this knowledge depends on having willing students around to learn. How many young people leave the kampung every year to go out and find work?


    Here i am paraphrasing a statement made by the late Herman Suwanda at a meeting that was discussing standardizing PS.


    Some people have jobs and can't travel to the kampung to train. That's modern life. Why can't 'the mountain come to Mohammad'?


    then that's the least of your problems.
     
  18. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    With respects to both Ibu Rita Suwanda and the late Herman Suwanda, they are entitled to their opinions. In my opinion I they were both mistaken. I grew up in the desa in Jawa Timur, tanah tumpah darah-ku, and silat is always close to home in one way or another. It is in our blood, what use have we of those who say it's not on the horizon of our consciousness?

    Also the "some of the people" you allude to who can't make it to the kampung form a very small (and generally wealthy when taken in local perspective) portion of the population. The ideas of IPSI and Silat Bogor and your self attempt to take the veracity of this silat tradition and make it the province of those who can afford it (worse is that silat becomes some sort of spectator sport a'la USA/western sensibility ... up-chuck!) ... even while saying that they do what they do fo all ... the reality shows a different story. This is not what silat used to be about.

    You started your reply to me by calling me a fool for disagreeing with your POV (pointing at the moon etc) ... and and then you go on to say what you would like to see etc. It certainly didn't sound like just the messenger to me. IMO you are both ignorant and arrogant. :rolleyes: .

    What is your real name? Mine is Krisno Pryosusilo.

    Salam.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2007
  19. nasigoreng

    nasigoreng Valued Member

    My name is Ray Hook
    I live in West Jakarta. I study Cingkrik Goning with Pak Bambang . We train on a small patio behind the pumping station in Grogol.

    that wasn't my intention.I wanted to use the finger/moon metaphor to agree with this:

    I interpret the finger/moon saying as a metaphor for how marital arts deteriorate when students simply copy the forms and movements but don't develop the selfconciousness that enables them to create, to be fluid, to grow and become artists. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

    you're making assumptions about me and the Silat Bogor group.

    have you had any communication with the Silat Bogor crowd? Have you had any communication with the FP2ST on silatindonesia.com? Or are you just making more assumptions? As I understand it, the Silat Bogor/FP2ST crowd are in staunch opposition to the IPSI agenda so I don't see why you lump them together.

    I think you need to do more research before running in with all guns blazing. :woo:

    you typecast me right away as an unscrupulous bule out to capitalize on Indonesian culture... you're wrong.

    you previously remark how an individual can help a style evolve, but you lambaste my ideas because i'm a bule.

    you insinuate that only Javanese can understand Pencak Silat and that your traditions are the standard for everyone. For someone who criticizes homogenization in Pencak Silat, i find that hypocritical and racist.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2007
  20. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Rahayu Ray ...

    Apa kabar Ray. I then apologise for misunderstanding your quote, no hard feelings.

    However now you misunderstand me ... I do not insinuate anything of the sort. Traditional Javanese silat will always be that ... traditional Javanese (both new and old), even when it absorbs influence from China, Japan and Korea.
    Heh, when I was young orang Betawi were not even considered true Javanese by some. :)
    When you learn it and make it your own, it will be absorbed into whichever tradition forms your own life-perspective/culture.
    Being bule has nothing to do with a person's Javaneseness or otherwise. Being Javanese in the strict sense is about the embracing of cultural mores (kejawen), not about the pigmentation of one's skin. I type-cast you because that is the conclusion I drew from your communication.
    Are you Javanese Ray? It doesn't matter whether you are or not within the context of silat, except that in the end when the expression is their own, an American or Dutch or English or German (and even the Javanese ;) ) will be playing there own silat.

    Yes I occassionaly follow the milis Silat Bogor, although on the whole, I prefer the pragmatism and the mix of the denizens of this forum. :D

    Salam,
    Krisno
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2007

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