The times they are a changing?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Judderman, Nov 30, 2006.

  1. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    A recent report shed new light on the reasons behind street robbery.

    Why do they do it? Because they enjoy it!

    Whereas this may not come as any great surprise to anyone, how does it affect the way you consider robbery and your response to it?

    The BBC story can be found here:
  2. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    I've been reading British papers online for a while - Guardian, Times, Register - and the BBC. The amount of really serious drinking and fighting you guys seem to do is terrifying. Makes me glad to live in the US of A where all I have to worry about is getting shot :eek:
  3. Combatant

    Combatant Monsiour Fitness himself.

    My aim would be to make it as un enjoyable for them as possible. I could sit and talk about my yin and yang and inner self all day, but if I were to give them a good beating I think that would be more effective.
  4. narcsarge

    narcsarge Masticated Whey

    This is not new. Having studied crime and criminal behavior, this sort of "killer's high" has been documented for years. Personally, never having been robbed, it does not change my attitude towards the crime. Reqardless of what the criminals are thinking or why they do it, I don't really care. And my response would still be the same. Avoid the situation if possible.

    Give the armed criminal what they want and run. Things can be replaced.
  5. Tommy-2guns...

    Tommy-2guns... southpaw glassjaw

    what worries me is the recent trend of stabbing/attacking the person after they have complied, this has happened since the dawn of time, but people being attacked after compliance to their attackers/muggers etc is on the rise and it is a bit worrying when so many people belive in the ' ill do what he says and ill be okay' ethos.
  6. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    It does rather tilt things towards the "Fight back at all costs, you have nothing to lose" end of the scale.
  7. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Its very true, I used to be one of them.

    I went out and activly fought for fun. Every weekend. Its like a right of passage for youths.
  8. RNC

    RNC Valued Member

    Not it isn't, it is a right of passage for punks on their way to prison. Glad you quit, but there is no way to justify attacking innocent people.
  9. g-bells

    g-bells Don't look up!

    it's not uncommon for a criminal to shot,stab, or beat a victim even after they have given into the attackers demands. if your going to go down why not go down swinging. if there is no way to avoid it ie running away throw abeat down upon them. vitulaty jusdice
  10. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    We didnt attack random people. We fought other like minded people.
  11. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    ... ranking high in the All Time Hit Parade (sorry :) ) of sports of young men with more testosterone than myelin, just behind cattle-stealing and doing stupid-ass stunts to impress girls :rolleyes:
  12. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    As NK says, scrappers tend to go for other scrappers, sometimes they get it wrong. robbers and happy slappers etc. tend to go for people they think they can overpower, they make mistakes of course because most crims are dumb. Confidence, posture and awareness not only help you but make you less of a "fun" target for them, training and determination can really make you able to spoil their day.
  13. Pocari Neko

    Pocari Neko Learner Ninja

    One's own strength in character and the good company of friends will make your day go well again a lot more quickly after the scums have harrassed you.
    However when there are x number of security cameras looking down on you and them, and "all" they are doing is a Section 5 , and none of their racial threats and verbal abuse is picked up, you're on your own. And remember, your belt is likely to work against you in court.
  14. Explorer

    Explorer Valued Member

    Good news. A study from Florida State Univ Dept of Criminology in 2004 shows that fighting back of ANY kind results in fewer and less sever injuries to the attacked party ... once the self protective measures have been deployed.

    It's an amazing study, I reccommend it to every martial artist serious about self defense.
  15. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    I really doubt that study. What did they do? Film people getting jumped?

    When you are getting robbed, give them your stuff, and let it go. I learnt first hand that being a hero and fighting back against 3 guys after your wallet is a stupid thing to do. And when I say, first hand, I mean tire iron....
  16. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Explorer: Got a citation?

    Naughty Knight: It's in line with over twenty years of research. There's a wide variety of studies on this in the criminology, victimology and even epidemiology literature. The first research was on sexual assault. It was extended to other crimes. Sources of data include police reports, randomized interviews, NCVS and UCR, other surveys and more. The results have always been in line with one another which gives a researcher some real confidence in the results. Here's the rough breakdown:

    • Do Nothing - crime gets committed
    • Begging, pleading, reasoning - crime gets committed
    • Screaming - meh. Doesn't make much difference
    • Enlisting help of others - very slight decrease in completed crime rate. Most people don't want to get involved
    • Running - likelihood of completed crime goes way down
    • Fighting Back - rate of completed crime goes down at least as much
    • Cursing, yelling (not screaming) - Rate of crime goes down somewhat, especially for rape
    • Use of a serious tool (knife or gun) - completed crime rate goes lower than sample size can accurately measure
    • Combination of any techniques not including #1 #2 or #3 - completed crime rate goes down even further

    Those who resisted experienced a slightly higher injury rate than those who complied. But the two studies which looked at the order in which things happen tell a very different story. In almost all cases where there was an injury the most serious damage came before physical resistance. In other words, the damage caused the resistance, not the other way around.
  17. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    *Sigh* I forgot how experienced scientists were with muggings and assults. Oh wait, they arent.

    A skinny officeworker finishes work late, and walks to his car. 3 big, methed up skin heads walk up and demand his cash.

    Scenario 1: He give them the money. They spit in his face and walk off.

    Scenario 2: He kicks the first one in the nuts. The other 2 grab his head and smash it into the pillar, then the first guy stabs him for hitting him. Guy dies in a puddle of **** and vomit.
  18. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    NK, I'll try once more. After that you're really not worth the time it takes to talk to you.

    These are people who have seen more than you. They spend ten hours a day, six days a week (about what an assistant professor bucking for tenure needs to put in) doing nothing but finding out the answers to this sort of thing. They do more than sit on a godsforsaken glorified island hanging out at the same pub, getting in drunken brawls with the same bunch of yobs every week. They look at large numbers of cases. They look study the police reports. They do carefully randomized surveys with controls. They don't just do what you do which is assume that you're right, make a few snide remarks and say "That settles it." Until you can go beyond "I just know it's true, La La La I can't hear you" you're just not worth the effort. So I'm not going to waste the time listening to whatever drivel you have to say on the subject.
  19. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    Heres the scenario as it applies to me. 235 lb with shoulders like basketballs office worker goes to his car. keys in hand, 3 skinny junkie scum look at him coming and move on, maybe one of them asks him if he can lend him some money, he says sorry guys I am rooked, they call huim a bawbag from the other side of the car park, he laughs and drives home to his missus and his tea.

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